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Democracy Vice Virtue - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 24th Sep, 2004 - 2:05pm
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Democracy - Vice Or Virtue?
After hearing and reading praises to democracy of late I would like challenge your thinking, or the thinking of most at least. 
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| The will, or the pretended will, of the majority, is the last lurking place of tyranny at the present day. The dogma, that certain individuals and families have a divine appointment to govern the rest of mankind, is fast giving place to the one that the larger number have a right to govern the smaller; a dogma, which may, or may not, be less oppressive in its practical operation, but which certainly is no less false or tyrannical in principle, than the one it is so rapidly supplanting. Obviously there is nothing in the nature of majorities, that insures justice at their hands. They have the same passions as minorities, and they have no qualities whatever that should be expected to prevent them from practising the same tyranny as minorities, if they think it will be for their interest to do so. There is no particle of truth in the notion that the majority have a right to rule, or to exercise arbitrary power over, the minority, simply because the former are more numerous than the latter. Two men have no more natural right to rule one, than one has to rule two. Any single man, or any body of men, many or few, have a natural right to maintain justice for themselves, and for any others who may need their assistance against the injustice of any and all other men, without regard to their numbers; and majorities have no right to do any more than this. The relative numbers of the opposing parties have nothing to do with the question of right. And no more tyrannical principle was ever avowed, than that the will of the majority ought to have the force of law, without regard to its justice; or, what is the same thing, that the will of the majority ought always to be presumed to be in accordance with justice. Such a doctrine is only another form of the doctrine that might makes right. (Lysander Spooner, An Essay on the Trial by Jury, Chapter XII) |
Is a democratic form of government a good thing or are we just repeating what we are told day-in, day-out by those who have no understanding of what freedom is really all about?
What do you think of what Lysander Spooner had to say?
Dubhdara.
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Virtue Vice Democracy
Based on my recent downloads I have a better understanding of its potential to er. I already knew the concept of majority rule, but I guess most people suppose that the majority always makes the correct decision - of course that is not so. I believe most people use the term loosely to mean 'freedom', maybe because they see themselves as part of the majority.
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Democracy - Vice Or Virtue? History & Civil Business Politics
Well, for the most part, in the societies that we consider democratic, it really isn't the majority rules and that is it. There are checks and balances to prevent a majority from causing unjust harm to the minority. As far as whether or not a democracy is a good thing, I would ask: as opposed to what? What option is there that is better? We certainly can't just let everyone do their own thing with no rules. I don't think a dictatorship is more fair, then it is one person making the decisions whereas with a democracy it is many.
So, I do think a democracy is a good thing, maybe not perfect, but that wasn't the question. 
Edited: tenaheff on 23rd Sep, 2004 - 11:07pm
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Virtue Vice Democracy
Well, the Framers rejected democracy in no uncertain terms - they established a republic - so, tenaheff, perhaps I could suggest (to answer your question): as opposed to a republic!
Also, note Lysander is discerning enough to speak of the "pretended will" of the majority - so in a democracy not only can the majority violate the rights of individuals/minorities, but also the leaders (demagogues) can do the same thing by convincing the populace that they have the will of the majority. Double whammy!
As the Founders correctly observed, democracies always lead to either anarchy or tyranny and often both.
What then is the purpose of democracy as a principle? If not as a form of government, what purpose does it serve?
Dubhdara.
International Level: Junior Politician / Political Participation: 100 10%
Virtue Vice Democracy
I don't like the idea of a true Democracy, although that is what many people are trying to put in place in the US.
I think that the best system currently available is a democratic Republic, wherein the representatives are appointed through democratic means, but the legislature and executive powers are held separate by those representatives.
I don't like parliamentary governments, although they are technically also democratic republics in form. There are fewer checks and balances, and small minorities often wield far too much power.
At the same time, I do like the idea of true democratic tools within the republic, such as the initiative process, although it also needs some checks on it.
So, basically, I think that the democratic Republic put in place by the US Constitution is the most stable and effective form of government.
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Democracy - Vice Or Virtue?
Nighthawk, I think the term representative republic may be what you mean (?). In any case here are the definitions taken from the U.S. Government Training Manual, No. 2000-25 dated: WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington, November 30, 1928 and prepared under direction of the Chief of Staff:
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DEMOCRACY: A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic- negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy. REPUBLIC: Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principals and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world. A republic is a form of government under a Constitution which provides for the election of an executive, and a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation, all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental Acts, and to recognize certain inherent individual rights. Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and your are drifting into democracy. Superior to all others. Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered. Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success. Our constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic." |
As quoted in "USA The Republic is the House That No One Lives In", https://usa-the-republic.com/amendment_14/usa.html#policy
Dubhdara.
International Level: Junior Politician / Political Participation: 100 10%
TOPIC: Democracy - Vice Or Virtue?