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By Their Fruits We Shall Know Them - Page 2

What great Thoughts!

I think we just nailed something else down. A person is not Good or Bad, entirely. But rather the individual "works" we do are. So for example, while I am doing one thing, my intent is real and my heart is into it and I am full of love. I just did a good work. Then I might turn around and do another work which I don't want to do and I despise doing it or at least don't feel in my heart like doing it, so the work is bad.

Remember that Moroni said by their works we will know them:

But he followed it up with a person praying and being good and a person praying and being evil. So the key here is to look at the individual work and see either the love or the hate in that particular work. When we do each task we can simply ask ourselves whether we are doing it out of love and because we want to or are we doing it because of duty, obligation, or externally imposed reasons.

Them Shall Fruits By

I have sat in on many Disciplinary Councils where the person felt that it was quite alright to do something completely against the Spirit and the Law and yet stand justified by their Fruits. In other words, because they were 'popular' or 'active' (helping out attending activities, etc) they felt that should negate breaking the Law of Chastity or defrauding another Member of thousands of dollars, etc. Indeed, by their fruits ye shall know them.

By Their Fruits We Shall Know Them Studies Doctrine Mormon

Thinking of what has being said I would like to add few things:

The story of David and king Saul -- no matter what Saul did, David did not judge him or slay him when he had the chance, just because Saul was the Lord's anointed.

This is how I see my leaders in the Church as well, though many faults can be easily seen from aside. But when we step into their shoes it is different, I know that from experience.

Nevertheless Jesus said one interesting thing of a way to distinguish leaders:

John 10:11-13

The one that is of the Lord will defend the Lord's sheep till death and will not allow for them to be catcheth or scattered. See the story of Ammon at the waters of Sebus, amazing one too.

Another example of what Jesus said about people praying is:

Luke 18:10-14

It is hard to say at first who is not honest, but I have seen how dishonest people strive for power in the Church, thinking that getting there will give them some special treatment or they will gain something, they themselves do not know what exactly. In time when it becomes hard to endure they get disappointed and start complaining that no one is doing anything, but they do all there is in the Church.

At the end they fall away.

Patience and Love will show you who the people really are.

I am still fighting with the time afterward: After all they have done, will I extend my hand to help them stay and change for good.

Just few thoughts.

Page 2 Them Shall Fruits By

I believe the Savior gave adequate example in the most basic of terms that makes the most sense. What is fruit? Fruit is something we eat, we take in for our benefit. If a tree is not providing good fruit then we know it will not provide us anything good so we rid ourselves of it. In my opinion the Lord is simply asking us to evaluate what the tree (person) is giving us... a benefit or a problem?

My own simple example is with the youth of today. Most of them fall so easy because they do not look for the fruits, but instead look for friendship or to belong. If your friend is offering you drugs, then what kind of tree is that? If your friend teases you or hurts your feelings intentionally then what kind of tree is that? Is that a benefit or a problem? The appropriate action is to rid ourselves of the problem or as with the tree analogy cast it into the fire and let it burn.

Lastly, the Savior used examples that were common for His day. Most everyone at that time was familiar with farming, pruning, etc. Maybe the Lord would have used the example of an employee and an employer or a computer and its user if He were here today. How do you know if an employee is good?

Them Shall Fruits By

I think something to look at with fruits is the use of them in other parts of scripture:

1. Fruit to open your eyes to good and evil
2. Fruit to give you eternal life
3. Olives, a fruit used in many allegories
4. Fruit of the vine, grapes also used

In each of these the fruit was acceptable if certain things, were done. The consequence of bad fruit also is severe.

By Their Fruits We Shall Know Them

Can you tell the difference between a bad apple and a good apple? If you can then you will know which one to eat. You can complicate it all you want but its as simple as that.

By Fruits Shall Them - Page 2

Name: Exile

Comments: How do you deal with what Alma taught the people in chapter 32... The people didn't know who Alma was or whether he taught good or bad ideas. His ideas contradicted the teachings of the leaders of the people. So Alma told them to

first before they knew whether it was good or bad... He said,

What if Alma was wrong? What if an anti-christ told us to do the same thing? Does the advice become wrong because of who said it? What happens if we experiment on the words of false prophets? There is a lot of fear here. People are afraid to listen to ideas that are not approved by some leader or group or government.

Alma said that the experiment we should try when we don't know the truth of what is being taught, was to put the words into our hearts.

But he says we should try the good and bad seeds without fear. Then if it is a good seed, we will know because,

But what if it is a bad seed? How then will we recognize it?

-Alma 32:32

Then he tells us something very interesting... The seed is not the fruit! The words as taught by Alma were not the fruit! The seeds or words of Alma or anyone else, (good or bad), must be planted and nourished and cared for before the tree can grow. And the tree that grows from the seed produces fruit.

So, Alma is telling the people and us to plant the seeds and care for them so that our ground is fertile to determine if the seeds are good or not. Good seeds will grow into tree's that bring forth fruit and bad seeds will not grow.

If Alma's words are true and a valid way to determine good from evil teachings, then we must feel free to try the good seeds with the bad seeds. Fear will and does prevent many from trying new seeds. If is the reason that many non-members are afraid to listen to and experiment on the words of missionaries and even we ourselves are afraid to consider anything not authorized by our seemingly infallible leaders.

Fear also causes us to try to stop people from sharing their experiences and thoughts that contradict our own. We become afraid that others might listen, plant the bad seeds and be lead astray. How is it that Alma can expect these people who did not know if his words were true or false to plant the seed and risk being led astray?


Source 1: Amla 32

By Fruits Shall Them Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

Exile, it's interesting you said this because we had a member before with a similar school of thought. YES, of course it matters who provides the advise or message. Would you trust or accept the counsel of an evil man? It has nothing to do with fear but with being wise and understand where the truth lies and where it doesn't. A false prophet cannot possibly have the Spirit of the Lord with him and whether or not he is intentionally misleading the people makes no difference. We were warned by Christ to be aware of them.