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Mormons - When Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed - Page 13

Ericwold, thank you for sharing your experiences, more so that you were a victim yourself gives your words more credibility. It was great that you found an escape and that you are able to arrest or control some of the emotions that came out of your negative childhood experiences. You are indeed one of the more rare 'lucky' ones to come out above what you suffered.

Sadly, too often most children do not get that opportunity to come out from their abusive world and instead find themselves becoming the perpetrators of the exact same abuse that they suffered.

I believe this is somewhat covered in The Atonement, By Cleon Skousen, however there are a couple of things missing that I've brought up in this Thread:

1. How is this a life a 'test' if the abuse starts from birth, maybe even before birth and the child knows nothing else. Then that child becomes an abusive adult once again perpetuating the same things she experienced at the hands of her abusers. If caught then the public holds that person as a monster in society when unfortunately she was raised by monsters and thus knows nothing else but how to be a monster.

2. What is there to gain from daily abuse for years and years? We are not talking about a one off situation but consistent daily abuse. Surely, if so many children are suffering this on a grand scale then there would be some kind of intervention. A lot of us tend to worry about such trivial things while so many suffer in silence - we live carefree and unaware that each day: Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed.

Killed and Abused Raped Children - Mormons

I fully realize that with a few words I can't satisfy your quest to understand something that's been troubling you for years. All I can share is my own experience and why I still trust Heavenly Father anyway, despite all the horrible things Satan has twisted us into doing to each other.

Is this about anger at the suffering of the victims and the inaction of God to prevent it, or a doctrinal question about whether these victims still have agency? It feels like your statements mix the two.

Even in the midst of suffering, the spirits of the abused perceive the world around them, their own actions and the actions of others, and in their hearts & minds they are able to decide / choose / believe as their agency directs. Horrible circumstances, such as those in the Holocaust, do not rob spirits of their ability to exercise agency. Even if I'm locked up in chains, with a bag over my head, and plugs in my ears, I can still think and choose. The fact that I have no degree of freedom to express my agency through outward action is a testimony to the evil of my captors, and they will answer for it at the Christ's hands. D&C 19 gives a glimpse of what they will experience.

On the question of this life being a "Test". You could just as easily explore this doctrine by asking why ANY child ever dies before the age of accountability. If they have never reached the age of accountability, then have they truly ever exercised their agency? What about my little sister who died at birth? Yes, we've been told she will be resurrected as a child and be able to grow up, but what about this life being a test for her? Or, how is this life a test for those with severe handicaps that put them at a great disadvantage relative to their peers? What about my son who suffers from Asperger syndrome? His troubles peaked at age 9 when he could no longer handle being treated like a freak and became obsessed with suicide. Every day was like walking on egg shells to avoid triggering an episode of rage & self-hate.

I have come to understand that God "Grades on a curve". Every intelligence will be judged / glorified according to the degree of agency and level of light and knowledge that spirit possesses and chooses to obey. Somehow this principle will be adapted to every single person who ever lived.

1.

is misdirection. The child still has agency, and speaking from experience there is generally lots of time in between episodes of abuse. To say that the child only knows abuse, is wrong. You state as if it was a forgone conclusion that abused children will grow up to be abusers. It's not that inevitable. Some of Christ's miracles are the hundreds of millions of souls that suffered abuse and didn't grow up to be abusers. Those that fell into the vicious cycle will receive his mercy and rehabilitation during the millennium as appropriate depending on their individual circumstances and choices. You and I, because of our compassion and knowledge, will be there to help them through it.

2.

Who said there was anything to gain from the abuse itself? Again this is exactly the kind of misdirection the Adversary wants you and others focused on. We still have more to gain from all the other experiences we accumulate. I lived in a welfare project and saw some of the most depraved people in the US. Yet, I also saw abused kids with smiles on their faces that still managed to find fleeting joy among friends, playing, and other gifts that life offers. I admit there were times when despair made me wish it would just end and He would take me home. He didn't.

You are falling into one of the fallacies common among those who have not personally endured chronic abuse and come to grips with it. The abuse we suffer does not define us. We are not forever "Damaged" Or "Victims" Because of the actions of others. Abuse leads to an identity crisis where the victim must realize they are a distinct individual from the abuser and they can choose, in their souls, how they react to the abuse. I vividly remember the day I experienced this crisis. I asked what was so bad about me that I deserved to live in such an environment. Long before I knew anything about the restored gospel the Spirit asked me "Who do you want to hurt?" I answered that I didn't want to hurt anybody. The Spirit replied "Then you are good." (I am paraphrasing, I no longer remember the exact words of my prayer. Only the feeling is clear.) From that day forward I carried the knowledge that deep inside I was good in His sight.

Even those who never manage to escape the vicious cycle of abuse will be provided for by a loving and merciful Father, and the day approaches for such debts to be paid.

I fully admit I don't have all the answers, but abuse does not rob people of their soul's agency, no matter what the adversary wants us to think, or how terrible the injustice of a suffering child. Heaven weeps with you.

Mormons - When Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed Studies Doctrine Mormon

I appreciate you going deeper into this Topic Eric, please excuse my answers as they may seem erratic but the subject matter is often difficult to describe.

My interest in this is born from many things. Especially as I frequently oversee the news of our Laws, Security & Justice and Parenting Boards. It is just mad evil what people will do to children, but even more so what they will do to them day after day for years. Often when you follow the history of those who commit the crime you find that they were also victims and it becomes a vicious circle. In the grand scheme of Mormon Doctrine I have found very little mentioned about this kind of abuse and the reason behind it. Sure you will find instances of challenges and difficult situations often faced by adults but they are usually temporary, however in this Thread I am specifically focusing on those who do not have a break and their torture not temporary. If you read from the start of this Thread to this current page you should get a gist of what I am asking / pointing at.

I understand that some of your answers will be based on your own experiences and I do respect that, however I do wonder if this is the same for lets say a child that has become feral due to being locked up in a cage and treated like a dog so the child's only capacity is that of a basic animal. Or a child that has full cognitive abilities but because of the ordeal becomes 'another person' / insane as the mind tries to cope with the shock.

I believe initially you will but maybe at some point (Time is relative: a year of torture or years of torture) your actions are no longer yours because your mind has altered. Keep in mind that I am also investigating the scenario of the feral child who does not have that reasoning.

I understand this fully but don't want to dwell on it here: Autism & The Truth / Autistic Mormons. I will say that one of my sons has such a serious condition that if he is not able to control it he is not far from an institution. I often consider the suffering in his mind - a suffering he cannot explain but is evidently there - he has no understanding of the world around him other than his own world. Indeed this is a sort of torture even for me to observe as I can think how he would be treated in the hands of another.

I think you are considering your own situation but what about those who do not have anything to compare to? If you are born into a dungeon and grew up being tortured then you will believe That's just how life is... and if for some reason you are released from that dungeon then you will likely carry on what you have learned of life. Our perception of things comes from our school of thought - the sum of our experiences and learning hence cannibalism in a certain tribe is quite 'honorable' because that is what has been taught and done and it is what the child knows.

In my own situation, after 14 years of chronic stress, I have been altered greatly, I am no longer the person I was years ago like a stranger. Therefore I can well imagine what could happen to a child. I also have a vague understanding of what PTSD might be like for a soldier who for example is altered and not be quite himself anymore but of course in this Topic we are talking about children.

Rather off topic, but...
You may also like to check: Mormon Mental Illness & Cured By The Priesthood

Page 13 Killed and Abused Raped Children - Mormons

This news report illustrates the hell some children go through and the cycle of perpetuated evil done against them by adults:

Killed and Abused Raped Children - Mormons

Another sad case where those who are responsible to love and protect are themselves the very evil that devours their own:

This woman is marked for life, how is that a fair test if from such a tender age she was taught rape by her own father.

Mormons - When Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed

Here is a case where a woman was required to watch 1700 videos of acts committed against children. She had to do this in order for a case to be brought before court as she had to rate each video and its severity. This woman, who considered herself strong, merely watched the videos, and after that she says she was changed forever, has PTSD, and psychological problems to the point of being broken. Again, she just watched. What about the children that go through this daily.

Mormons - Children Raped Abused & Killed - Page 13

I read through this case, it is something that happens all the time and we are unaware but these poor children are very much aware as they live the horror daily.