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Iraqi Prisoner Abuse? - Page 5

Nighthawk, I understand what this US senator tried to say but I have a problem with his statement. For one side, he is comdemning what these US soldiers did in abusing the prisoners but by the other side he is saying that those who committed the horror of 9/11 never apologized. Now, I don't think this was the right and wisest comment he could make because it seems like he is somehow justfying what happened. Just because the sick and evil people who committed the attacks in 9/11 never apologized it doesn't mean that what happened in Iraq with the abuses is right and it doesn't mean the US doesn't have to apologize. We could expect from the terrorists to not apologize but we cannot expect that from the United States of America, the country who talks about freedom, about liberty, about human rights, about treating prisoners with dignity.
The statement of this Senator is out of place in my opinion and definetly not proper at this time.

Abuse Prisoner Iraqi

I agree with LDS. I think what he is trying to accomplish is say, I am sorry, but... In my opinion, once you say the "but," the apology doesn't really count because you are trying to justify. Why can't we just say, I'm sorry. Period. I do believe that is being said by the President and the Pentagon. I have not heard any attempt at justification there. Yes, they mention that not all soldiers are like this and that it is somewhat isolated, but they haven't followed this up by saying "this isn't as bad as what our enemies have done."

While it may be true that we haven't behaved as badly as some that doesn't make it right and I don't think any apology should be tempered with a justification of any kind. It is wrong. Period. We should make sure it never happens again. Period.

The old saying "two wrongs don't make a right," comes to mind here for me.

Iraqi Prisoner Abuse? History & Civil Business Politics

The Canadian media is starting to tell us that it seems that the torture of prisoners was not isolated to or one prison. The latest evidence points towards an acceptable and widespread US practice, that is not only carried out in Iraq but also occurred in Afghanistan, Guantanamo etc... ie its a way of gathering intelligence

In trying to explain this type of U.S. behavior, the experts are saying that more and more americans believe that the U.S. is above any international law or convention and that this attitude / belief is reflected in American policy and actions. They go on to say that once you leave, New York, California, N.H. americans seem to be able to more easily justify the war and HOW it is being carried out. So probably Joe Lieberman does really represent the views of many, if not the majority.

Page 5 Abuse Prisoner Iraqi

As a former prisoner himself Mandela never goes into detail about his sufferings in prison, but he has mentioned they were formidable. I am sure seeing those pictures and hearing the news brought vivid memories to him.

MANDELA LASHES OUT AT BRITAIN, U.S OVER IRAQ

Nelson Mandela looked frail and joked about being an old man, but the former
president remained combative Monday, lashing out at the United States and
Britain over Iraq in a speech billed as his swan song before Parliament.
Ref. https://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/05/10...q.ap/index.html

Another thing to think about... can you imagine if a US/UK soldier is caught now and labled as a prisoner? Wow, the treatment he will get I am sure will be unspeakable.

Abuse Prisoner Iraqi

Well Mr. B, I don't believe Canadian news or you can really say what represents the majority of US citizens views.

I can speak for myself as a US citizen though. I do not believe I am above any humanitarian natural law. I don't think Canada or any other international body can regulate US law and tell US citizens within our own borders what we can do in general. So, in that sense I believe I am "above international law." However, I believe this right extends to Canadian citizens and Brazilian citizens, etc. I believe in national sovereignity, not international. So, I don't believe the UN or any other body has a right to tell me what I can do. I don't believe it can tell you what to do. It can, however, use it's power to try to make me decide it is best for me to do what it is they want. THis is done by blockades, etc. Also, the international community can get together and as a body prevent me from invading other countries without cause, etc.

All of that being said. Every member of humanity in my opinion, and this includes US citizens, have an obligation, both legal and moral, to be humane. We are accountable to the Geneva Convention because we signed the documents that made us accountable to it. Therefore, we have no right to do anything contrary to it. Many US citizens try to justify this behavior by saying that it is done to save US lives and if it saves US lives they are fine with it. I am not sure how I feel about that, but it is what I hear from people who are trying to justify this behavior. I do not believe this is something that only US citizens believe. I am willing to bet if it were Canadian lives at stake some in Canada would also try to justify it by saying it was done to save Candadian lives.

I do not believe there is any justification that can make it acceptable or right. I do not believe the majority of US citizens think it is acceptable either. Just because some feel that way, doesn't make it the majority.

Edited: tenaheff on 11th May, 2004 - 10:56am

Iraqi Prisoner Abuse?

As usual, there are other sides to the story.

On a blog, Iraq the Model there is an interesting interview with an Iraqi doctor who has worked in Abu-Gharib, within the timeframe when the abuse occured.

I'll let him use his own words:

There is a lot more. I have read quite a few stories about how Iraqi people have responded to this scandal. Almost all of them react in disgust, not at the Americans, but at those who are making such a big deal about it, and blaming the President and his administration.

Iraqi Prisoner Abuse - Page 5

Nighthawk, I sure do not mean any disrespect and I understand your patriotism, but surely you can't put your head in the sand on this one. The Red Cross, Amnesty International, US politicians, US military brass and even the people being accused have not denied what went on. In the case of the people being accused, one person stated, she was only following orders, she did not deny anything. The only question is not to know if it happened , but how much of it happened.

Tenaheff, I agree we don't really know what the majority of Americans are thinking (probably still trying to come to grips with the whole affaire) and yes each country and it's citizens are/should be sovereign. But once we go beyond are borders, international law must apply. As a world community, we can not have one Country imposing it's values and beliefs on all others or bullying smaller countries. Therefore, we need the acceptance of international laws, to assist in the establishment of a fair and juste world society Now we can argue for days on the value of the various international organizations as we could argue the value of Canadian type democracy vs the US style, but the bottom line is, we as individual citizen of a particular country are collectively responsible for the action of our government leaders. We are the bosses, we call the shots.

Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Politics Business Civil & History - Page 5

The only thing I have to say is this is definately not going to help matters. It will only likely alienate those in the US who were so outraged by the abuse by the US military.

As far as it being a revenge killing for the abuse, I really don't accept that. Daniel Pearl was killed in exactly the same way and it too was video taped, long before any allegations of abuse to Iraqi prisoners.

From the same article: