Your Rights!

Your Rights! - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 30th Sep, 2004 - 12:39pm

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Post Date: 22nd Sep, 2004 - 11:04am / Post ID: #

Your Rights!

Do you know your rights? What does your country say that you can and cannot do? Many often mix the difference between rights and privileges which are two very distinct terms of power.

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Post Date: 28th Sep, 2004 - 9:42pm / Post ID: #


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Rights Your


People also make the mistake of thinking they do or don't have the a right based on the law of their country.

Rights, genuine rights, exist whether you live in Russia, America, Sweden or even the on the Moon!

Constitution's - or a Bill of Rights - declares rights. It does not grant them. Hence the term "constitutional rights" can be misleading.

I love this quotation:

QUOTE
"Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another; for who is he who could be the first giver, or by what principle, or on what authority, could he possess the right of giving?"┬ŽIt is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence only, and must therefore be equal to every man." (Thomas Paine, Dissertations on First Principles of Government).


I believe Paine spoke the truth.

Dubhdara.


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Post Date: 28th Sep, 2004 - 11:06pm / Post ID: #


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Your Rights! History & Civil Business Politics

Dubhdara, I understand perfectly what you are saying, however, and this is just my simple philosophy... it involves the verb 'to have', you have what you are allowed to have, but what you are is up to you. In other words I could say I have the right to say what is on my mind, but if I am put to death and my family burned alive because of what I said can I really say I really have the right? On the other hand I can say I have the ability to be courageous despite odds, even if I will die for it, why... simply because it truly is up to me what I am. What I really can do is not totally up to me unless I can enforce or protect it. If I cannot then I do not have it. In a perfect world I do believe we are born with God given rights and we should be able to say, do and act as we please so long as we don't injure another, unfortunately it is not so.


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Post Date: 29th Sep, 2004 - 4:42pm / Post ID: #


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Rights Your

JB - now I undertand what you are saying too ;)

However, I would put it this way: your rights can never be taken from you. You always have them. This is what inalienable means. Now, it is true that these rights may not be secured - i.e. they are violated. But this does not negate the fact that you have them. Even if someone stole all your worldly wealth you still have a right to own and control your property even though you don't have any at that time.

Of course, for rights to be of a blessing and use to us they must be secured or - one could say - it is like not having them but possess them we do and always will, and always have.

I believe you do have the right to speak your mind even though the consequences are dire and even though such a right be not declared or accepted by government. You may choose not to exercise it though.

Regardless of how ideal the world is I think we are all born with God-given rights.

Dubhdara.


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Post Date: 29th Sep, 2004 - 5:08pm / Post ID: #


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Rights Your

It is good that we understand each other so well ;)

Now let me throw in this based on:

QUOTE
Regardless of how ideal the world is I think we are all born with God-given rights

You are working off the assumption that each person sees a supreme power giving them rights. I believe it comes down to the verb again. In this case it is to 'give'. Working off the ideal that we do not really have anything that is ours save it is given to us to have as our own we must rationalize that something cannot come from nothing. You are saying that there is a God that gives 'rights' (I do not doubt there is a God), what about those who do not believe there is a God? Then others may say whose 'right' is it to 'give' rights, even if the being is unseen - how do we know it is not a means to say 'we have a right based on 'x' supreme power'.?

I guess that is why governments like communism and dictatorships that try to extinguish religion and / or religious freedom do not believe in a concept of 'born rights' nor a patron god. Whereas those governments that promote religious freedom do believe in the concept of rights inherent to each individual.

So does it come down to belief?


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Post Date: 29th Sep, 2004 - 5:54pm / Post ID: #


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Your Rights!


Paine spoke of the origin of rights from quite a universal point of view - that they exist by nature of our existence (hence they are called natural rights). A person need not believe in God to accept that.

There are two possibilities for people to believe: either we have rights or we do not have rights.

If a person accepts the latter then he must also accept that it is quite justified for another to seek his life, liberty, wealth etc. Would many people accept that? I think none or very few would though they may spout of certain collectivist ideas - in the end no one feels it is right to be murdered, hurt, unlawfully imprisoned, kidnapped, have their property stolen or damaged or destroyed, etc.

Some say rights are a social construct - this makes no sense as society cannot give you rights because rights by definition cannot be given. A right is something we possess without having to seek permission to possess or exercise. They are inherent.

Either we believe in inherent rights and accept the consequences, or we do not and accept the (dire) consequences.

Interesting that those who speak out against intrinsic rights seem to speak so much about other kinds of rights (though they mean privileges!).

I could say some things to support this but it would mean going to another forum ;)

Dubhdara.


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Post Date: 29th Sep, 2004 - 6:01pm / Post ID: #


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Your Rights!

Interesting, however... I do not get...

QUOTE
I could say some things to support this but it would mean going to another forum


I can go along with the point that it is natural to not want anyone to steal from you, etc. However there are those that feel this is only based on the strong and the stronger principle similar to the animal kingdom where the rat was provided for the cat, the cat for the dog, the deer for the lion and so on. Hence systems like the caste were developed which makes it inherent that individuals are somehow born to serve others which would negate rights under the codes of slavery.


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Post Date: 30th Sep, 2004 - 12:39pm / Post ID: #


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Your Rights!

I merely meant, in suggesting the other forum, that certian things could be pointed out and supported from lds-specific scriptural sources.

But as to your point - this comes down to the concept of self-evident truths. I am very much in agreement with Alexander Hamilton on this subject who said:

QUOTE
In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths or first principles upon which all subsequent reasonings must depend. These contain an internal evidence, which antecedent to all reflection or combination commands the assent of the mind. Where it produces not this effect, it must proceed either from some defect or disorder in the organs of perception, or from the influence of some strong interest, or passion, or prejudice. Of this nature are the maxims in geometry, that "The whole is greater than its part; that things equal to the same are equal to one another; that two straight lines cannot inclose a space; and that all right angles are equal to each other." Of the same nature are these other maxims in ethics and politics, that there cannot be an effect without a cause; that the means ought to be proportioned to the end; that every power ought to be commensurate with its object; that there ought to be no limitation of a power destined to effect a purpose, which is itself incapable of limitation. And there are other truths in the two latter sciences, which if they cannot pretend to rank in the class of axioms, are yet such direct inferences from them, and so obvious in themselves, and so agreeable to the natural and unsophisticated dictates of common sense, that they challenge the assent of a sound and unbiassed mind, with a degree of force and conviction almost equally irresistable. (Federalist No. 31)


The Golden Rule and doing what you say you're going to do are the two basic principles of human government in my view. That is Common Law. That is Natural Law.

Dubhdara.


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Post Date: Sat Feb 23, 2019 - 12:25:46 GMT / Post ID: #

History

Your Rights!

We interrupt Your Rights! to share infobreak from yesteryear:
HistoricToday is: 23rd February (GMT), in history on the 23rd of February, 1972 AD the following birth happened:
Steve Papin: WLAF running back (Scotland Claymores)

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