Socialist America

Socialist America - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 12th Feb, 2005 - 9:31pm

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This is what we may see in the future?
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Post Date: 12th Oct, 2004 - 10:25am / Post ID: #


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Socialist America

First of all let me explain something that I have done many times before... 'America' refers to the whole Western Hemisphere which in fact is America. People have the habit of saying 'America' and meaning the 'USA' which is only a part of America. It is like saying 'Panama' and referring to Canada, USA, Mexico, Venezuela, etc. Anyway, enough on that... so the subject of 'Socialist America' refers to the Western Hemisphere and all the countries therein as a whole. You will always see me say 'US Citizens' when referring to people particularly within the USA.

Now on to our subject at hand - keep in mind that this thread allows you to play out a possible future scenario, NOT to discuss forms of governments as is done in other threads. Trends towards a socialist America seem more and more abundant as people's rights are trampled on (mostly because of ignorance) and the populace of each country in the Western Hemisphere becomes docile to the ideology that 'the government knows best or better'. The question is this... how long will it be or will it ever be that there is a point of no return or in other words, is it possible that in the future people will become so gullable that their countries will seem to be totally communist in nature?

You remember the story of the man and the piano. The man had a piano in a room in an odd place and the wife did not like where it was located so she moved it one day. The piano player, her husband, was very angry and moved it back to its original location. The wife, seeing that she would not get her way decided to move the piano by exactly one inch each day and the husband did not even notice. Before too long the piano was moved to where the wife wanted it and the husband was oblivious of it. She got her way. Socialism and other government forms that seek to take away the property and even agency of individuals are growing in strength - they moved by 'one inch' each day and the ultimate plan is to 'get their way'... what will happen, will we be overcome?

Play out your scenario...


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Post Date: 19th Oct, 2004 - 2:08pm / Post ID: #

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America Socialist

GROWING DEMOCRACY

From preschool on up children learn to walk in lines, raise their hands to speak, sit where they are told and most importantly that what the teacher says goes -- not exactly a democratic environment.
Ref. https://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C...99145%2C00.html

Post Date: 19th Oct, 2004 - 2:53pm / Post ID: #

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Socialist America History & Civil Business Politics

I most certainly see socialism creeping through all of the Americas. Canada seems to be rushing headlong into it, and Mexico is very strongly socialistic. I am not as familiar with other Latin American countries, but the feeling is that the people are moving generally towards strong socialism.

I obviously think also that the US is heading towards socialism, although we have some checks in our system that is slowing it down. There is also a pretty strong conservative movement within the US that is implacably opposed to socialism.


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Post Date: 28th Dec, 2004 - 11:51pm / Post ID: #

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America Socialist

"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology."
-- Michael Parenti political scientist, author

Post Date: 29th Dec, 2004 - 6:16am / Post ID: #

Melodray
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America Socialist

QUOTE (JB@Trinidad @ 12-Oct 04, 5:25 AM)
how long will it be or will it ever be that there is a point of no return or in other words, is it possible that in the future people will become so gullable that their countries will seem to be totally communist in nature?

I may (probably) will go ranting a bit, so please forgive me in advance.

First I would like to say that true communism is set up to provide for the people, eventually giving way to the people being able to control themselves peacefully with no need for government intervention. There has been no true communist government to date. This is one of my hot buttons, because labels such as these have distorted the general view of many political values, including communist and anarchism.

Now, back to the topic. Socialism, in the modern understanding, is the nationalization of industry (essentially the opposite of anarchism, wich is the public ownership of industry). It is easy to see socialism, to some extent, in almost any government. Focusing on America, essentially all industry in nationalized in South American countries (possibly a bit exaggerated). This has been an issue with the destruction of rain forests. Canada has seen a large increase in nationalized industries, especially in health care, where it has begun to lean towards Norway and UK style programs. Mexico has only recently seen nationalism sneaking in, primarily because of the poor economy and the prohibitive expense of individual control of any industrial means. In times past, Mexico experienced relative free industry, as evidenced by the widespread production of tequila and other major exports.
My area of most knowledge, naturally, is the US. Interpretation may vary, but I would put forth that the US has already reached that point of no turning back. We are run by a socialist government, and there is nothing to stop it. Although there is no out-front national control of industry in the US, there are behind-the-scenes controls in the form of regulations, administrations, agencies, licenses, and so forth. All land is owned by the government (purchasing land only gives you a right to use it), and the average US citizen does not own their house (assuming mortgages).

So, where is this all heading? I think it will all follow the natural course of history - either the government will collapse, or the people will revolt. Throughout history, governments have continually taken more freedom from the people, until either the people revolted, or the government collapsed. I think there is a small form of revolt in the US in the form of the Libertarian party. Given the relative low support for this party, I believe the US itself is heading more towards collapse than towards revolt. I do not think other American countries have reached the same point, so it is hard to predict where they will go.
In a loose interpretation, it could be said that any emigrant is in fact a revolter; the many immigrants coming in from Mexico could be a sign of a revolt beginning to stir up in Mexico, perhaps spreading to South America. I believe that Canada is the most stable nation of all America, and will become the "king of the mountain", assuming the US's global position if we collapse into the history books. However, the UK will likely remain the world's military super-power if the US disappears.

Post Date: 30th Dec, 2004 - 4:37am / Post ID: #

Rustedhope
Socialist America
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Socialist America

Well, I would challenge the notion that governmental efforts (whatever they are) to create a "docile" masses would lead to socialism. I would actually argue that such efforts would lead to what is called totalitarianism with the illusion that it may be a "democracy" or a country "by the people".

Supposedly "Communist" countries hid behind this rhetoric--I'm thinking of Stalin in this case. But I'll avoid the talk about different governments. I just think that there needs to be a separation made between what socialism and totalitarianism are because they aren't the same.

There is some concern that the US is heading into that direction, but I don't think it is remotely as bad as it was at the turn of the 20th century--with McCarthyism, Wilson, Japanese concentration camps, the new FBI deporting supposed "radicals", and the Alien & Sedition Act. Fears were renewed with the Patriot Act (and PA II) recently. These fears are worth noting, but things are relatively better since then.

As for other countries in America, I'm not so sure.. Some would call Canada "socialist", but I haven't heard any coherent arguments for this. Are they supposedly socialist because they have a universal health coverage? The US is one of the few wealthy, industrial countries that doesn't offer this (may be a few other examples--South Africa, Israel perhaps).

Overall, I'm concerned with how the US will react to other countries in America deciding they know what's best for them. Throughout the past century, in countries like Grenada, Guatemala, and Nicaragua (to name a few), it can be argued that we actually scorned democratic efforts.

Reconcile Edited: rustedhope on 30th Dec, 2004 - 4:44am

Post Date: 6th Jan, 2005 - 8:21am / Post ID: #


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Socialist America

Interesting question. However, there are very few "true" democracies in existence. The US is certainly NOT one of them. Canada is even further down the Socialist path...HOWEVER...it is not true Socialism either. They are Socialist Republics...and there is nothing wrong with it. In a "true" democracy, I vote on everything. However, this is not very practical! I turn over my vote to a Senator/Representative that I may or may not agree with. I think people get to "uptight" with the phrase Socialist and relate it too closely to that of Communism. They are very different.

The US started sliding further down the Socialist-Republic path when Roosevelt started many of the government programs to help out during the depression in the 30's. While this did help get Americans back to work, it started government dependence that had not been there before. The government is big and strong and easy to depend on and today you see the result. The government is the biggest employer and provider in the US.

Canada has always leaned towards this direction. Ironicially, the US is actually slowly following in many of Canada's footsteps (but we wont admit it).

Much of Latin America is still climbing out of military rule. Most likely, they will go towards the Socialist-Republic direction as well. There will be a few though that do embrace the Communist philosophies.

Just a thought,


Vincenzo


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Post Date: 12th Feb, 2005 - 9:31pm / Post ID: #

Brw1202
Socialist America
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Socialist America

Canada, what are you crazy, all their programs are already run by the government. Second I am familiar only with the US and I would say the threat is definately here undecided.gif our people are strong and prideful not to mention the One of the 2 major parties (Republiacans) have been noticing this trend taking over the Democratic party. I think most of the people see this but do not associate it with socialism just a party out of control and a little sketchy. As for the Libertarian party if they could get more recognition and I am sure they will as this problem progresses they could be the saving grace of the US but Canada I think not.

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