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When Did Man Come To The Americas? - Page 2

I don't want to be anal about this, but what is it exactly, about carbon dating, that you aren't convinced about? Or rather, what part of this process gives you uncertainty as to its validity?

Furthurmore, I'm having trouble following quite what you mean about carbon dating reading data from prior to the creation of earth. How is it that you believe earth was created, and what is it that inspires this belief in you?

Americas To Man When

Zeuts, The problem with carbon 19 testing is it isn't a good way of truly dating something. A experiment took place once they put a quarter in some dirt and then
gave it a carbon 19 test and it showed that it was older then it actually was.

You also made some comments earlier on one was, "People seem to have a misunderstanding of science, assuming that what science claims is fact, or that scientists believe they really know everything." The reason people believe this is because that is what we are taught. Take Darwins theory of evolution for instance, at his death bed Darwin said that it is only a theory and not to be taught as fact. In schools all over the world we are taught that Darwins theory is science fact. We are not allowed to teach that the earth and man was created the way the Bible puts it.

Second, True knowledge of anything (other than our own knowledge that we are incapable of knowing) does not exist. If True knowledge of anything does not exist, then God does not exist for he is the true knowledge of everything, there is nothing that he doesn't know. He is not looking for some new truth he had not found. We as mortals don't have all the true knowledge but we do have some.

Has for Science having an open mind. I don't believe that any hard nose scientist is truly open minded or they would spend more time studying the what the holy scriptures teach about the creation of the world and man. If science is open minded it would except that what the bible teaches can be completely possible.

When Did Man Come To The Americas? UFO & Writing Art Education Sciences

And how do you know? How do you know God even exists? And please don't tell me something like you 'know' because of "faith". Faith is not knowing, it's having faith. I have faith in many things, but I don't KNOW. I have my faith however, because I have given it trial. I believe only what I am led to through logical trial. Therefore, my faith is a fickle faith, but it is a truer faith.

I also understand that my faith is only a probability. I understand that all things we consider ourselves to know are only probability. Fact is an illusion. There is only information of high probability, and information of lower probability. This probability exists because a human being cannot sanely say in honesty that he is 100% certain of anything. We have perception because our minds function individually. Perception is the primary factor of uncertainty. You see things differently. I see things differently. Neither of us has a full understanding. Sentient beings cannot be certain, that is the only certainty.

In 'fact', you ARE allowed to teach that the earth and man were created as the Bible suggests. No-one forces people into "public" schools. There are private schools that teach what they believe, and public schools that teach what they believe.

I don't necessarily agree with the way evolution is taught (often in a biased manner). Yet never have I heard a teacher, or heard OF a teacher having referred to it as something other than 'theory'. We call it a theory, therefore we acknowledge it is NOT fact (though in all honesty, nothing is fact). It is taught because it gives us greater understanding of the way creatures in the wilds think and interact, "theorectically". Creationism does not. This is because creationism is not Science. Creationism does not submit itself to the constant scrutiny that science does. There is ample reason to believe evolution is true, but other than the bible, there is no reason to believe that creationism is true. Considering the nearly undeniable errancy of the bible, I don't believe it's a reasonable pillar to place one's belief upon.

Consider this please: Many other religions claim a similar theory of creation. None of these religions (to which I am aware) have any more or less proof of their claims than the bible. Perhaps the thought of human beings being created by a higher and empathetic force with a purpose for us, simply makes us more comfortable. Is it not possible that that is the reason for a creationism theory? Because the bible, and the foundations of other religions, were both created by mortal men, like ourselves, is it not likely that they represent a theory of existence that made the founders more comfortable?

I agree that a certain degree of skepticism is perhaps necessary when considering what 'scientists' reveal. However, the skepticism isn't neccessary because of science itself. It is neccessary because of human beings. When science is presented in any way other than as a logical attempt at explaining the world around us, it is being presented falsely.

First, I would present a definition of Science: "any activity that is the object of careful study or that is carried out according to a developed method"
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004.

True scientists (scientists that adhere to the scientific process) are open-minded individuals in my fervent opinion. Theirs' is the quest for truth through trial. They are willing to accept any falsehoods and move on to attain truth. I cannot say the same of those that do not follow the scientific process for determining their own beliefs. Also, you must understand that science is a philosophy, not just a tool. The discoveries made through the use of this philosophy are often useful and used by many. Using science only as a tool to discover some things and not others is not what a true scientist does. A true scientist applies the philosophy of science to everything in his own life. It is to these people I refer, when I use the term "open-minded". Consider the term "open-minded", and see if you can refuet me.

One last thing I would like you to please consider: There are many Christian scientists. To say that scientists should study the bible more is absurd in my opinion, because they HAVE, and DO. Perhaps creationists should study science more, no? Yet, truely many creationists DO study science as well. Though I think both sides could stand a little more interaction to achieve greater understanding.
Anyway, I'm done with my rant. Sorry to be be so long-winded, it's just the way I am.

Edited: Zeuts on 4th Apr, 2005 - 10:24am

Page 2 Americas To Man When

I think I'm going to like you Zeuts, you remind me of myself at your age, you question everything. I like that. You asked the question, "And how do you know? How do you know God even exists? And please don't tell me something like you 'know' because of "faith". Faith is not knowing, it's having faith." To let you in a little bit of my history, I have not always believed in God, I was one of the strictest Atheists you would know. Then a friend introduced me to back to the LDS belief and I questioned everything. Any ways I discovered for myself that God does exist and their is proof that science is ignoring. Are you curious now, exactly what proof do I have that their is a God?

EVERYTHING! Science would have us believe that the universe was created out of Chaos. That's not true. The universe is quite the organized system. Every planet knows it's part everything from Red Giants to the smallest atom all are running a very organized part. Take the human body, IF we were created out of Chaos like Scientists want us to believe then how is it that our bodies are so Organized. Our bodies know how to repair it's self, they attack anything that is forgien to it. Can you really say that our bodies are made from chaos when so much is organized? Our bodies are the perfect example of how organized God really is.

On faith there are two scriptures that I'm giving you to think about the first one is from the Bible Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." And Alma 32:21, "And now as I said concerning faith--faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true." This is acceptable scientific explanations of faith. A perfect example of how science and faith are pretty close get your hands on a copy of The Book of Mormon and read Alma 32 which consists of pgs 288-291, it describes how one gains faith, it is also the same way scientist try theories. Interesting, Yes! Forgive my preaching.

They may use the word theory but they teach it as truth, in all my learnings and readings I have never heard a teacher say, "This is only a theory and may not be the truth." In fact in a town here in the U.S. a school district put a warning label of sorts in their Science books saying that "The theory of Evolution is only that a Theory." The state made them take all of them out. Why? Because it is taught as a fact not theory.

You said"Many other religions claim a similar theory of creation. None of these religions (to which I am aware) have any more or less proof of their claims than the bible. Perhaps the thought of human beings being created by a higher and empathetic force with a purpose for us, simply makes us more comfortable. Is it not possible that that is the reason for a creationism theory? Because the bible, and the foundations of other religions, were both created by mortal men, like ourselves, is it not likely that they represent a theory of existence that made the founders more comfortable?" You are a very observant individual, I indeed agree. Humans are by nature worshippers we have a built in comforter in worshipping deity, it brings comfort to us to know that there is more out there than what appears before the eyes.


I also agree that if those who subscribe to the creationism and all other beliefs of how the earth was created were to come together they would do more good. Myself has a amateur scientist and someone who subscribes to creationism have studied both sides of the fence and found that I do indeed favor creationism for one simple fact. Hacom's Razor when all things are considered, the simplist explanation must be right or something to that effect. For me creation is the simplist it seems that if a creator of sorts was behind everything we seen and feel it would make sense. Where if the scientists are correct then what is the purpose of life.

Thanks for your input Zeuts you are very interesting individual. Also forgive my bad spelling.

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I'm sorry, but I just can't accept pure faith as part of my basis for belief. I'm not sure why, but always I am driven towards logic as deciding factor. I don't disbelieve your religion, I simply consider it less probable than what I believe. I too have engaged in many different religions. I began as I am, yet with less understanding. I was simply confused. Then I encountered the Lutheran, Baptist, and Mormon churches. In each of these I was drawn in, and for a while a very passionate believer. But deep down, I just couldn't accept it. I wish I could, but that simply isn't the way that I think. But now, I am more comfortable with life and death than I have ever been. I see things differently, in a way that leads me to accept what others believe, and be content with what I believe. Perhaps I should state what I believe so you have some idea of why I think the way I do.

I believe that we as human beings, don't have any way of "knowing" for reasons I previously explained. However, there is probability, and there is the heart. Probability (to my knowledge, which is as fickle as faith itself) is currently suggesting that none of mans' religions is true. The Universe, though vast and complex, was created by some higher force, but that force did so through chaos. The force I refer to is what you might call a "God". I wouldn't call it that, because it implies that the force is sentient. You see, in the end, I believe there is only truth. There is a greater whole that we become a part of, and when we do, we gain the ultimate understanding. Our subjective realities are dispelled, and all that remains is truth. That is the objective truth that I believe resides behind the veil of our subjective perceptions as human beings who possess egos. We are no longer ourselves when we become a part of the whole. We are no longer subject to the pains, desires, and concerns of human beings. We simply ARE.
There is no evil in the universe, and there is no good. There simply IS, because in the end everything is connected. Does believing there is no evil or good mean I believe we as human beings can just do as we wish without thought of others? No, of course not. Committing deeds that could be deemed as evil are deeds that sway further from the truth. The truth for human relationship, is perfect empathy with other human beings, because in the end we are all the same. This "higher force" that I refer to has a plan for us in my belief. The plan is that we all seek truth. Peace, harmony, love - these things are part of that greater truth. No sane human religion today claims that those things do not have value, and are core to our existence. In the end, all religions are grasping at the same truth, but it becomes deluded by human subjective perception. This is what I believe, and I am comfortable with it. My heart tells me that there is a higher force, and probability tells me that the force does not exist as Christianity, or Buddhism, or any other religion perceives. So you see, I suppose I have a faith. But my faith may be revoked at any time by probability. If probability were to put an earthly religion in favor through some bit of evidence uncovered, that religion would become my own. I don't KNOW anything, and I accept it. There is no reason to worry, because in the end what happens will happen, and because I see no reason to believe the contrary, I believe that end will be favorable to human beings.

So anyway, that's what I believe. Nothing but probability could sway me from it.

When Did Man Come To The Americas?

It could be possible that the dating is not accurate, because the carbon percentage might have been different 50,000 years ago or whenever it was. But I don't think it could have been that different - perhaps a couple of thousand years would be added or subtracted from their result.

But they found it in fossils of human beings, how would any human beings exist before the Earth was created?

When Man To Americas - Page 2

The wold and man were made out of the same exact stuff, if you were to see all the chemicals and minerals and everthing we are you can find in nature. For example our bodies are made up with about 1/3 water. Not to mention that electricity courses our body too. How is that they have found it in human fossils we were created out of the very dust of this earth.