War - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 22nd Nov, 2004 - 2:58pm

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Just for the love of it? Is there a time when it is justified?
Post Date: 18th Nov, 2004 - 1:22pm / Post ID: #


"A time will come when a politician who has willfully made war and promoted international dissension will be as sure of the dock and much surer of the noose than a private homicide. It is not reasonable that those who gamble with men's lives should not stake their own"
-- H.G. Wells

Of the wars that took place in or in relation to your country, what percentage of them were based on anything but self-defense?

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Post Date: 18th Nov, 2004 - 3:35pm / Post ID: #

A Friend


Every war my country was in , had at least some of the bloodshed spread over my homeland. So even of some of them ended with romanian army fighting over the border they all were in selfdefence . if your people die in a conflict on your homeland that mean that you did not chouse this war, the war chouse you!

18th Nov, 2004 - 4:16pm / Post ID: #

War History & Civil Business Politics

what percentage of them were based on anything but self-defense?

I don't know the pecentage but the war against Iraq is on my opinion a war not based on self-defense. I would say that there is a big percentage of wars around the world that are based on anything else but self-defense.

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Post Date: 19th Nov, 2004 - 6:24pm / Post ID: #

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"War: a massacre of people who don't know each other for the profit of people who know each other but don't massacre each other"
-- Paul Valery quotes (French poet, essayist and critic, 1871-1945)

The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles
-- Mahatma Gandhi

22nd Nov, 2004 - 11:57am / Post ID: #


My country (Trinidad & Tobago) has not had to face war save as aid to the British when we were a colony and that was WWII. Other than that there was a coup which was caused by a radical muslim group's belief that the government was taking advantage of the people. The military and police fought against them and after 6 days it ended with an amnesty (unbelievable). It seems in this case the muslims just wanted to 'make a point'.

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Post Date: 22nd Nov, 2004 - 2:08pm / Post ID: #

A Friend


War will never bring something good to the people that will do the fighting, being them conquerors of freedom fighters

the ones that could stop the conflict and they are not will be the only one that will benefit from it

I am against war with every part of my being and whatever anyone would tell me there is no justification for what is going on now in Iraq . Open your easy and your hearts and if you still think that there is a point in people (on both sides ) dieing please reply

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22nd Nov, 2004 - 2:42pm / Post ID: #


Maicman, I find it interesting that you are against war yet your avatar depicts someone in military garb brandishing a semi-automatic weapon. Just an observation. I believe that war at times is necessary. If there were no wars, our world as we know it today would not be the same. Countries would not be what they are, we would not have individual freedoms. Slavery would still exist in parts of the US. War is a necessary evil for the better good of a people. Are all wars justified; maybe not. But I wouldnt say that all wars are bad.

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22nd Nov, 2004 - 2:58pm / Post ID: #

War Politics Business Civil & History

I see only a couple of justifications for war.
1. self defense - when one country attacks another.

2. liberty - when a government is oppressive, denying basic liberty to its people, the people are justified in rebelling against the oppressors. At the same time, I can see some justification for outside forces (countries) to do what they can to end the oppression. The best example of this was Nazi Germany. When the US got involved in WWII, nobody outside of Germany really knew what was going on as far as the situation with the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and other "undesireables" was concerned. As the war progressed, and the world began to find out about the horrors of Nazi Germany, there was no longer much protest that the US (or the UK, or any other country) should have stayed out of Germany.

It goes on much more throughout the 20th Century, and even now into the 21st. WWII morphed into the Cold War, where the USSR, then China, then Korea, then Vietnam, Camobodia, and Laos all went through the same types of situations. The UN was formed to help moderated things so that such wars would be stopped before they began, but was quickly shown to be completely ineffective. Personal liberty was destroyed in all of these countries.

In the Arab world, personal liberty is a tenuous thing at best. There has never been a time when there was significant liberty there. However, as the proponents of Naziism within the Arab/Muslim world gained power after WWII, the severe oppression expanded, to even worse depths than seen in medieval times.

Now, what is happening in Iraq, at this time, is extremely complex. It has certain elements of self-defense within it, for the US in particular, but it also has elements of overthrowing extreme oppression, establishing liberty, and providing a safe-haven for those who want to experience liberty. There probably are some not-so-noble motivations as well, but it is extremely ungracious to focus on them at the expense of the very real noble sentiments.

Obviously, I am biased on this subject. I firmly believe that the invasion and war within Iraq are vital elements of the overall war on terror. I abhor the thought of war. While I never served in combat, I was in theater for the 1991 Gulf War, and could easily have seen combat - other members of my unit did so. However, I also believe that liberty is the greatest principle worth fighting for within this life. From a religious perspective, I believe in greater principles on an eternal level, but for this mortal life, liberty is the key.

In the 1960s, President John F. Kennedy spoke about this subject, warning the world that the US was prepared to support liberty wherever it was struggling, and to oppose oppresion, using war when necessary, wherever possible. His party gave up on that ideal in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and his opponents embraced it later on.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on war. I hope I haven't repeated myself from earlier in the discussion.

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