Columbus Day

Columbus Day - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 27th Jan, 2008 - 5:02am

Text RPG Play Text RPG ?
 

+  1 2 3 
Posts: 19 - Views: 3857
Best of  Columbus Day Honoring a man who started the exploitation of Native Americans?
Post Date: 6th Oct, 2006 - 8:53pm / Post ID: #

NOTE: News [?]

Columbus Day

Challenging Columbus Day: Denver Organizers Discuss Why They Protest the Holiday

Monday is known as Columbus Day, which is supposed to commemorate the arrival of Christopher Columbus to the so-called "New world" In 1492. But the holiday has long caused anger amongst people of color, especially Native Americans, who object to honoring a man who opened the door to European colonization, the exploitation of native peoples and the slave trade. We talk to Glenn Morris of the American Indian Movement of Colorado and Glenn Spagnuolo of Progressive Italians Transforming the Columbus Day Holiday.
Ref. Source

Image from Wikimedia public domain.

Columbus Day
Columbus Day (Hover)

Sponsored Links:
Post Date: 10th Oct, 2006 - 4:57am / Post ID: #

Columbus Day
A Friend

Day Columbus

I have to agree with this assessment. In fact, I don't know why we honor him as the man who discovered america when he in fact never set foot in the United States, or what would become it. That is why it is named after a Viking and not Columbus. But I had never really thought about what his coming meant to the Native Americans and the African Slave trade. In fact, he made it possible for the worst slave trade in history to begin as well as starting what would become one of the worst eradications of a people in history.

10th Oct, 2006 - 11:01pm / Post ID: #

Columbus Day History & Civil Business Politics

I have heard all of those objections before, and none of them are worth anything.

First of all, the name "America" appears to have come from an Italian name, Amerigo Vespucci, not a Viking name.

As for Columbus, the objections to him all come from people projecting their prejudices and values upon something that happened over 500 years ago, and a person who not only was working within the values of 500 years ago, but within a very foreign culture - a medieval, European culture.

So, what did Columbus do that was so bad? He set out to find a way to the Far East - India - by going around the sphere of the world. He had no idea that the Americas were there. He sincerely thought (apparently) that he had reached India. According to ALL values of the time, in ALL cultures of the world (including the indigenous peoples of the Americas), he was a very brave, visionary man, who faced incalculable danger.

He didn't know that he was bringing smallpox, influenza, or any other diseases with him. At the time, nobody in Europe had any understanding of how disease was spread.

He didn't lead the conquistadors here, nor did he guide the Spanish or Portuguese missionaries here. Those were decisions made by different people, who exploited the country again, based upon their value systems and beliefs. If you want to hate someone for what happened in the Americas, then blame the correct people - the perpetrators of the atrocities.

Now, as for his place in history. Yes, there were other people who "discovered" the Americas. The indigenous peoples "discovered" this land, and displaced whoever was here before them. The Vikings had some knowledge of, and probably some settlements here. There is even a possibility that the Templars knew of, and used, the Americas.

However, Columbus' "discovery" changed the course of world history. It had an overwhelming effect on Europe, the Americas, Asia, and Africa. Incredibly good things came about as a result of his "discovery." Incredibly bad things also came about as a result of his "discovery."

What is absolutely certain is that if he hadn't "discovered" the Americas, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. Someone else would have "discovered" the Americas, and the course of history would have been significantly different.

The indigenous peoples of the Americas would have still died in horrible numbers and horrible conditions. Certain European and Asian cultures would have overwhelmed the indigenous cultures. It might still have been Spain, Portugal, and England that had the most powerful effects, but it might have been France and Italy. Or, perhaps it would have been Russia and Sweden. Maybe China would have done it.

The point is, Columbus DID return to Europe with the information that changed the world. The Vikings didn't do it. The Russians didn't do it. The Africans didn't do it. This Italian man, working for a Spanish Queen, did do it.

He can't be blamed for the slavery from Africa. It already existed within Africa, as did the horrible slavery among the indigenous peoples of the Americas. He can't be blamed for the deaths of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Perhaps those things came as a result of his actions, but that doesn't mean that the blame can be laid at his feet.

I do celebrate his accomplishments. He did very well, according to his beliefs and values. He was a very honorable man.

Those who criticize him, in my opinion, are way out of line. Especially those who preach hatred of a man who was not responsible for their situations. Like those "people of color" who wouldn't be able to "protest" if it wasn't a result of his actions.


International Level: International Guru / Political Participation: 854 ActivistPoliticianInternational Guru 85.4%


Post Date: 11th Oct, 2006 - 10:43am / Post ID: #

Columbus Day
A Friend

Day Columbus

I do agree with Nighthawk on most points. I supposed being mixed with all of the ethnic groups mentioned gives me a more relaxed perspective - 'my' people opressed 'my' people and decimated 'my' people, a few centuries ago doesn't make for much of a protest.

Saying that slavery was already happening in Africa and in the Americas before Europeans brought it to a global level, is a bit of a cop-out though. An African slave in Africa, or an Amer-Indian slave in the Americas could work and hope to buy his freedom, had the chance to return to his home eventually. Generally, he became a slave by being a prisoner of war.

That is entirely on a different scale to capturing African slaves and transporting to the other end of the globe, where they'd be slaves till they died.

Again as well, one has to be careful blaming the Spanish and Portuguese missionaries for African slavery. The reason that the idea was thought of and put into practice was actually more humane than what it turned into.

I've forgotten the name of the man, a Catholic priest, who came up with the idea - it's been a long time since history class! However, remembering those days in history classes, he had been a missionary in Africa and seen the conditions over there, before being sent to the New World. Here, he campaigned heavily against the horrible abuses being done to the Amer-Indian people, which was well on its way (and in smaller islands like Trinidad, did) to becoming an act of genocide.

He suggested to the authorities that since the Amer-Indian population were unaccustomed to the type of heavy labour being given to them and the work was quite literally killing them, they ought to consider importing the African, who in Africa as slaves were accustomed and better able to handle the harsher conditions. I am not saying that he was completely right... however, he did save the Amer-Indian nations from complete anhilation.

In short... it's unfair to look back, without a complete knowledge of the time or the peoples, and say "this one was evil because without him, that wouldn't have started". If the European invaders weren't too lazy to do their own work, none of the slavery mess would have started. Would you call that a fair statement, too?

11th Oct, 2006 - 11:22pm / Post ID: #

Day Columbus

You are right, in all aspects. I wasn't attempting to blame the missionaries for slavery, only pointing out that the Spanish and Portuguese, through the missionaries and conquistadores brought European religion and culture to the Americas, along with the diseases that decimated most of the indigenous people.

I would like to point out that there were many different types of slavery, in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Americas. Most of the slaves from Africa were captured and sold into slavery by other Africans. In the Americas, in some places, slaves were captured and sold as meat - to be consumed. In other places, they were tortured and murdered in religious rites.

However, that is a digression from the subject. My point was that there is absolutely no way that Christopher Columbus can be blamed for the slavery issues. He can be honored for making it possible for places such as the United States, Canada, and Trinidad to exist.


International Level: International Guru / Political Participation: 854 ActivistPoliticianInternational Guru 85.4%


Post Date: 11th Oct, 2006 - 11:46pm / Post ID: #

Columbus Day
A Friend

Columbus Day

I was very wrong on the Viking thing, and I knew I was wrong before finishing your sentence, I just wasn't paying attention when typing I guess. But my statement that he didn't discover America still stands. Schools teach that he discovered America which is in reality a false statement. And if he hadn't brought back the news, someone else would have. Columbus thought he had found the path the the West Indies, thats why he named the people Indians. Its not like he took back news of a new continent he had found. And I wasn't hating on him, merely pointing out that we do celebrate a single man as the discoverer of America when if fact he didn't discover is or even ever set foot on it in his lifetime in any of his three trips over here. Most of what his trips did was open up new avenue, many of them bad avenues, especially for the people indigenous to the country. Thats not his fault of course, but really, he is at least in part responsible whether he meant to or not. But I'm not hating him for that. When it all boils down to it, he did not discover America, yet we celebrate him for discoverers day. Shouldn't we be celebrating someone who actually set foot on the place?

Make sure to SUBSCRIBE for FREE to JB's Youtube Channel!
12th Oct, 2006 - 12:18am / Post ID: #

Columbus Day

Remember, I said the exact same thing. He obviously WASN'T the first to discover the Americas. However, he was the first to discover it, and change world history!

His voyages are what brought the attention of Western Europe to the Americas.

I also pointed out that someone else would have "discovered" the Americas. There is no way to know how things would have been different, but they could have been MUCH worse.

A lot of bad things happened. A lot of good things happened. But to condemn Columbus, which many, many people do, because of other peoples' choices and actions is foolish.

I have had many people state to me that they "hate" Columbus. Yet they willingly partake of the privileges and advantages of living in the United States, which is one of the ultimate consequences of Columbus.

That is why he is celebrated for his "discovery". It was a discovery, and it did have a huge effect on history, including allowing the creation of the United States, which, with all of its flaws, is still the greatest nation on earth. IMO.


International Level: International Guru / Political Participation: 854 ActivistPoliticianInternational Guru 85.4%


Post Date: 27th Jan, 2008 - 5:02am / Post ID: #

Columbus Day
A Friend

Columbus Day Politics Business Civil & History

To me, Columbus Day is one of the darkest days of the year. Why do we celebrate a man who set into motion hundreds of years of bloodshed, racism, and prejudice against natives that continue even to this day?

+  1 2 3 

 
> TOPIC: Columbus Day
 

▲ TOP


International Discussions Coded by: BGID®
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Copyright © 1999-2024
Disclaimer Privacy Report Errors Credits
This site uses Cookies to dispense or record information with regards to your visit. By continuing to use this site you agree to the terms outlined in our Cookies used here: Privacy / Disclaimer,