Trinis - Primitive People - Page 3 of 7

QUOTE how can they be labeled as "ignorant" - Page 3 - Trinidad, Tobago / Caribbean - Posted: 2nd Dec, 2006 - 10:03pm

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Looking for first world status with an attitude similar to that of zoo animals? What is your view about the way Trinis conduct themselves in public?
Post Date: 14th Nov, 2006 - 12:07pm / Post ID: #


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Trinis - Primitive People - Page 3

As an an example of this... there is the issue of the Smelter in Chatam. The people who are anti the Smelter behave in the most deplorable manner. When called to a meeting to Discuss the issue they shout and heckle the ones who are pro-Smelter. They start to stand, prance, raise their voices and basically make noise so that when someone with an opposing view speaks he cannot be heard. On the one hand they talk about Democracy, but do not allow it. In other words, they do not even know how to Discuss something civilized. Maybe they should read our 'Art of Discussion' Thread.



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Post Date: 14th Nov, 2006 - 12:56pm / Post ID: #


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People Primitive Trinis

I saw the show you are referring to and I was there looking at those people in total amazement. First of all, they had a microphone and they were shouting instead of talking to each other...for some strange reason, primitive individuals think that by raising their voices somehow suddenly someone is going to hear them. Then this guy got excited about all the "bacchanal" going on and he started dancing when someone shared a good point. The funny thing is that they do not see themselves as primitive at all, they would get offended quickly if someone points their behavior as primitive (as it happened within this thread already). It is not about bashing Trinidad and Tobago or Trinidadians in general, but we need to admit this is a very common thing.

Everytime someone meets my husband for first time, they always ask him if he is a Trinidadian, ONLY because he speaks proper English and not dialect and does not move his head, hands or body when he speaks, maybe because he is soft spoken and is not calling a guy down the road by shouting at him.

I remember last year when I was working in town, I took a taxi and sit down next to the driver. We stopped at a traffic light and the driver saw someone he knew who was walking down the road, the driver got closer to my window site and start shouting at him, trying to get his attention, I tolerated once but then he continued and he was literally killing my ear! So I told him politely to stop because he is hurting my ears (I was pregnant by the way). He said he was sorry, and I accepted but then from that point to my point of destination (probably 5 blocks) he started to drive like CRAZY, he would drive and suddenly stop, drive and suddenly stop just to make my life miserable...why? Just because I told him to stop shouting. That's the maximum of primitiveness.

If Trinis in general do not want to accept this problem, let them live in ignorance, if they think that by having Movie Town and the latest of shoes are somehow "civilized" then they are simply dreaming and it seems like some of them, are pretty good at it.

Attached Image Edited: LDS_forever on 14th Nov, 2006 - 1:14pm



Post Date: 17th Nov, 2006 - 12:37pm / Post ID: #


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Trinis - Primitive People Caribbean / Tobago & Trinidad

QUOTE (JB @ 14-Nov 06, 8:07 AM)
In other words, they do not even know how to Discuss something civilized.

Look at the same example you was giving about the discussion that took place to discuss the smelter. Point Fortin MP Larry Achong mouthed an alleged obscenity to a lady present, yes...to a woman.

Everything started when a UWI student was giving her opinion on the matter and this guy told her to "shut up" and when a woman tried to defend the girl, she got an obscene response from this "man" (if you want to call him that way) in front of three children. I saw the guy on TV, his behavior was beyond primitiveness. Typical low-class individual that when things do not go their way, they choose insults and obscenities because there is no much grey matter on their brain to be able to speak like a decent person. And who is this guy? A member of Parliament! Can you get more primitive than this on this country? rolleyes

QUOTE
The woman to whom Point Fortin PNM MP Larry Achong mouthed an alleged obscenity at a meeting to discuss the controversial smelter at Pt Fortin said yesterday that she was "terrified" of him.

The woman, who has asked that her name not be used, said that she didn't want to compromise her family's safety, since she has always been a little afraid of Achong and this was made much worse by the incident.

She said that people are always afraid to speak out.

"I am terrified of that man," the mother of one said. "I still can't believe a (former) minister would behave that way."

The alleged incident took place at the Chatham Youth Centre, where Andy Johnson, host of TV6's Morning Edition, was hosting a public forum to discuss Chatham's rejection of Government's plan to relocate the village and allow Alcoa to build an aluminium smelter there.

A student of the University of the West Indies (UWI) was expressing disapproval of the proposed smelter when Achong told her to "shut up".

The woman said the student was so stunned that she did not reply but stood staring at Achong in disbelief.

"I couldn't just let that happen, that wasn't called for at all," the still-upset woman said yesterday in a telephone interview. "Mr Achong had no right to speak to someone's child like that, there was no need.

"I was so upset. I told him that I found that very disrespectful," she said, adding that he then put his hand by his mouth and uttered an alleged obscenity....


Full article: https://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/ar...ws?id=161052979

Anywhere in the world, such behavior is a call for resignation but not in sweet T&T, what is this member of Parliament's reply about the matter?: "Nobody can fire me, at worst the party can expel me but nobody can fire me as a Member of Parliament".

His own party asked him to apologize (which he didn't as I write this) but did not expel him from the party even though his primitive behavior should have called for it.

Is anyone denying the primitiveness of some of these people here? Please...

Rather off topic, but...
This is not a discussion about the Smelters or Mr. Achong but about the primitive behavior of some individuals in Trinidad and Tobago


Attached Image Edited: LDS_forever on 17th Nov, 2006 - 1:02pm



Post Date: 30th Nov, 2006 - 10:54pm / Post ID: #


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Page 3 People Primitive Trinis

Wow how did I miss this thread?...lol!

Well, first of all, I think there may be a better word that can be used other than "primitive". It gives the impression that we swing on trees and havent learnt how to walk upright. This is not a category I would like Trinidad to fall under, especially since we are stereotyped that way by foreigners who dont know any better.

In offering a valid solution for a term, I would say that we as a country, can have ignorant ways of thinking. From our politicians who say "I cant tell you where we will be placing the eye in the sky" (even though our taxes have paid for them), to our media who refuse to spell basic words correctly, we have an all-round problem. Syrians and Chinese Trinidadians can be just as ignorant as Indians and Africans in this country. But that doesnt mean that slavery hasnt influenced the ignorance of Indians and Africans. I am no expert though, so I'm not sure how accurate any opinion on the area could be.

In the first case, I have to agree that when Trini's see you with a man/woman "lighter skin" than you, they automatically think "you feel you better than we". It doesnt even refer to interracial couples. A "dark skin" Indian girl with a "light skin" Indian boy always gets more looks than two people of the same complexion. It is obvious that Trinidadians are obsessed with skin colour. Ive mentioned before that in alot of Indian homes, the colour of the person you are dating/marrying is of great importance. And I have had Afro-Trinidadian friends who said "no he too black" when referring to another negro person. So its not only one race.

In the second case portrayed..well..hm!...I can talk all day about this one. I have no respect for people who love another gender or race above their own. I'm not sure if that sounds bad, but I am a believer in defending your race and gender, within limits of course. But to actually outright dislike your race or your gender? Thats self hate and it is truly pathetic. A woman like this, who has no respect for her own race, more or less deserves to be referred to as a "coolie". Yes, that's wrong I know, but it's also true. Why demand respect for something you have no respect for? Please.

I agree with the notion that a man will treat a woman of a different race better. This is going to be quite controversial, but some African men shy away from the extremely independent disposition of African women. African women are comfortable raising their children alone, and not depending on a man. Indian women are taught to stand by their men, to take on duties of a wife etc. Both races have its benefit. I think a woman should take on certain responsibilities, while at the same time maintaining some level of independence. Conversly, some Indian men may like the assertiveness of an African women. Again, both cultures bring something different to the table.

In retrospect, I dont think I answered the question posited, but rather, the article LDS posted. Bottom line though, Trinidadians are more ignorant than primitive...the terms arent interchangeable. Self hate is something we have to address, so that we can start loving our gender, race and country.



Post Date: 2nd Dec, 2006 - 2:56am / Post ID: #


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People Primitive Trinis

Cookie said:

QUOTE
I think there may be a better word that can be used other than "primitive". It gives the impression that we swing on trees and havent learnt how to walk upright. This is not a category I would like Trinidad to fall under, especially since we are stereotyped that way by foreigners who dont know any better.


I understand what you mean but I do think lots of Trinis live by the word. They may not swing on trees but they behave pretty primitive. The stereotypes many times are according to people's behavior (not always of course).

Many of them are ignorant yes, but the constant stares...the shouting back in your shoulder like if everybody is deaf, urinating on walls on a busy road (and I am not talking about homeless people!) all those things are what I personally consider primitive. The "I doh care" attitude, and the one that bothers me the most: some see white people like gods, they almost worship them, you can kill yourself saying something and nobody takes you on but a white person says the same thing and is the Bible! That's absolutely primitive.

Attached Image Edited: LDS_forever on 2nd Dec, 2006 - 2:57am



Post Date: 2nd Dec, 2006 - 6:26am / Post ID: #


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Trinis - Primitive People

QUOTE
the shouting back in your shoulder like if everybody is deaf, urinating on walls on a busy road (and I am not talking about homeless people!) all those things are what I personally consider primitive. The "I doh care" attitude


Well, Trini's dont have respect for their country. We wont go to another country and do the same nonsense we do here. This has to do with the fact that our laws are not upheld due to the shoddy government system we've had since independence. Everything slides here. We can litter in front of a policeman's face and he won't blink an eye. The "small" things arent dealt with...which is the reason the "big" problems cant be handled. Our leaders "doh care" , so we "doh care" either.

QUOTE
some see white people like gods, they almost worship them


I assume this is due to our relatively recent freedom from colonialism. However, I cant help but think if there were more "white" people in Trinidad, say they made up 40% of the population, they would not be as worshipped. Chances are, they would not all be wealthy (as the majority are/seem to be in Trinidad). This means that they could walk into a store and not necessarily be deemed as rich. The population would be more desensitised to them. As it is right now, it's still a "big deal" to see white people in the eastern part of Trinidad. If their presence was greater, this wouldnt be the case and thus they wouldnt be treated as Gods.

An Afro Trinidadian can go anywhere, meet an Indian person and relate to their culture. Theyve been exposed to it enough. That cannot be said about people in certain parts of the US and Europe, who are still in awe of Indian culture. But these people are not considered "primitive" are they? No, theyre just ignorant to another culture. We here are no different. We can only react to what we have been exposed to previously.

What you deem as "primitive" behaviours, LDS, is a result of a political culture, along with our lack of exposure to Caucasions. I dont think either of this is our fault exactly, so I still consider it a form of ignorance.



Post Date: 2nd Dec, 2006 - 12:46pm / Post ID: #


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Page 3 Trinis Primitive People

Cookie said:

QUOTE
We wont go to another country and do the same nonsense we do here.


Then how can they be labeled as "ignorant" if they know better?

QUOTE
An Afro Trinidadian can go anywhere, meet an Indian person and relate to their culture. Theyve been exposed to it enough. That cannot be said about people in certain parts of the US and Europe, who are still in awe of Indian culture. But these people are not considered "primitive" are they? No, theyre just ignorant to another culture. We here are no different. We can only react to what we have been exposed to previously.


I think we both kind of think the same way but we are using two different words to describe the behavior. I understand the word "primitive" may have negative connotations but if you are on a maxi and people stares at you with a semi-open mouth constantly(women, men, or kids) then how can that be "ignorance"? It is just "primitive" behavior. A "normal" behavior would dictate in my view that if you want to look at the person, you would do it without the other person noticing it but here it is all the opposite. Very strange. I do not mean "primitive" in a bad tone but some behavior I see, seems very primitive.

QUOTE

What you deem as "primitive" behaviours, LDS, is a result of a political culture, along with our lack of exposure to Caucasions. I dont think either of this is our fault exactly, so I still consider it a form of ignorance.


Perhaps, but Trinidadians travel quite a bit to the US, England, Canada...countries with large population of Caucasians. Trinidad also have so many tourists all around. I think they just react what has been fed to them for generations: The "primitive" thinking that the white man is "better" and if "massa" has it, then it must be good, etc. It is so internalized in society and individually that some people just cannot see it and they deny it. I see it more happening with our East Indian Trinis than Afro-Trinidadians (I hope I haven't offend anyone by this). It is just an observation.



Post Date: 2nd Dec, 2006 - 10:03pm / Post ID: #


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Trinis Primitive People - Page 3

QUOTE
how can they be labeled as "ignorant" if they know better?


Well again, the ignorance comes from the lack of repercussions. They smarten up in another country because the repercussions are greater abroad. It is a form of ignorance which is as a result of getting away with doing nonsense. Believe me, this form of ignorance makes no sense to me personally, but it still falls within that category.

QUOTE
if you are on a maxi and people stares at you with a semi-open mouth constantly(women, men, or kids)


To tell you the truth, ive seen gorgeous men and women walking in a mall or a foodcourt and people stare at them with open mouths. They have not all been white, so that wasnt the reason. Though you deem that as "primitive", its just the openess of Trinidadians. We dont "hold water in we mouth" and we dont hide our reactions. We tend to express ourselves openly and not do anything "cloak and dagger". True it can be uncomfortable for people on the receiving end, but I dont think it is done in such a bad way that it is an issue. We as Trinidadians dont stare at handicapped people. In fact, ive seen my fellow countrymen assist the elderly and disabled willingly. Those are the people who should feel awkward being stared at, and theyre not.

I recently went to renew my license in the East. I was the only young woman in the small waiting room. Everytime I looked up from my book, some older man or woman was always staring at me. Sure its uncomfortable, but I wasnt feeling to crawl into a hole. I'm not that sensitive. If I had a skin disorder or some other disfiguring ailment, I would feel horrible. But Trinis dont stare at people like that. We are remarkably sensitive to those sorts of things. I think that is something to be appreciated.



QUOTE
Trinidadians travel quite a bit to the US, England, Canada...countries with large population of Caucasians. Trinidad also have so many tourists all around. I think they just react what has been fed to them for generations: The "primitive" thinking that the white man is "better"


Well, not all Trinis go to predominantly white neighborhoods abroad. If you notice, there is a large contingency of Trinis in Toronto, New York, Miami, London. Alot of Trinidadians go on "holidays" by their families, who live in those more "caribbeanised" locales. They are still exposed to their "own people", and when they go to shop etc, they stick with their families. This is not to say that they dont meet Caucasions. Of course they do. But its still not as frequent as they would socialise with their own race.

QUOTE
I see it more happening with our East Indian Trinis than Afro-Trinidadians (I hope I haven't offend anyone by this). It is just an observation.


Well you havent offended me at least LDS, but even though I believe that it is a symptom in East Indian culture, I cant begin to say it is more prevalent in my culture than in Afro-Trinidadian culture. Indo-Trinidadians are passive in nature and their beliefs. They will listen to anyone (I can have a field day with that topic). A white person can come along and they immediately listen to their views. But look at it the other way. Many Afro-Trinidadians are openly assertive. They speak freely about their political beliefs without fear of backlash. But when a white man walks into a room and starts to talk, they all sit and listen. Have to ever seen an man of African descent cut into the conversation of a white man? I very much doubt. The most raucous group of Afro Trinidadians can be silenced when a Syrian/Caucasion person begins to speak. This is not an epidemic that mainly falls onto the shoulders of Indians. This one, I refuse to believe.



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