As an an example of this... there is the issue of the Smelter in Chatam. The people who are anti the Smelter behave in the most deplorable manner. When called to a meeting to Discuss the issue they shout and heckle the ones who are pro-Smelter. They start to stand, prance, raise their voices and basically make noise so that when someone with an opposing view speaks he cannot be heard. On the one hand they talk about Democracy, but do not allow it. In other words, they do not even know how to Discuss something civilized. Maybe they should read our 'Art of Discussion' Thread.
I saw the show you are referring to and I was there looking at those people in total amazement. First of all, they had a microphone and they were shouting instead of talking to each other...for some strange reason, primitive individuals think that by raising their voices somehow suddenly someone is going to hear them. Then this guy got excited about all the "bacchanal" going on and he started dancing when someone shared a good point. The funny thing is that they do not see themselves as primitive at all, they would get offended quickly if someone points their behavior as primitive (as it happened within this thread already). It is not about bashing Trinidad and Tobago or Trinidadians in general, but we need to admit this is a very common thing.
Everytime someone meets my husband for first time, they always ask him if he is a Trinidadian, ONLY because he speaks proper English and not dialect and does not move his head, hands or body when he speaks, maybe because he is soft spoken and is not calling a guy down the road by shouting at him.
I remember last year when I was working in town, I took a taxi and sit down next to the driver. We stopped at a traffic light and the driver saw someone he knew who was walking down the road, the driver got closer to my window site and start shouting at him, trying to get his attention, I tolerated once but then he continued and he was literally killing my ear! So I told him politely to stop because he is hurting my ears (I was pregnant by the way). He said he was sorry, and I accepted but then from that point to my point of destination (probably 5 blocks) he started to drive like CRAZY, he would drive and suddenly stop, drive and suddenly stop just to make my life miserable...why? Just because I told him to stop shouting. That's the maximum of primitiveness.
If Trinis in general do not want to accept this problem, let them live in ignorance, if they think that by having Movie Town and the latest of shoes are somehow "civilized" then they are simply dreaming and it seems like some of them, are pretty good at it.
Edited: LDS_forever on 14th Nov, 2006 - 1:14pm
|QUOTE (JB @ 14-Nov 06, 8:07 AM)|
|In other words, they do not even know how to Discuss something civilized.|
|The woman to whom Point Fortin PNM MP Larry Achong mouthed an alleged obscenity at a meeting to discuss the controversial smelter at Pt Fortin said yesterday that she was "terrified" of him. |
The woman, who has asked that her name not be used, said that she didn't want to compromise her family's safety, since she has always been a little afraid of Achong and this was made much worse by the incident.
She said that people are always afraid to speak out.
"I am terrified of that man," the mother of one said. "I still can't believe a (former) minister would behave that way."
The alleged incident took place at the Chatham Youth Centre, where Andy Johnson, host of TV6's Morning Edition, was hosting a public forum to discuss Chatham's rejection of Government's plan to relocate the village and allow Alcoa to build an aluminium smelter there.
A student of the University of the West Indies (UWI) was expressing disapproval of the proposed smelter when Achong told her to "shut up".
The woman said the student was so stunned that she did not reply but stood staring at Achong in disbelief.
"I couldn't just let that happen, that wasn't called for at all," the still-upset woman said yesterday in a telephone interview. "Mr Achong had no right to speak to someone's child like that, there was no need.
"I was so upset. I told him that I found that very disrespectful," she said, adding that he then put his hand by his mouth and uttered an alleged obscenity....
|Rather off topic, but...|
This is not a discussion about the Smelters or Mr. Achong but about the primitive behavior of some individuals in Trinidad and Tobago
Wow how did I miss this thread?...lol!
Well, first of all, I think there may be a better word that can be used other than "primitive". It gives the impression that we swing on trees and havent learnt how to walk upright. This is not a category I would like Trinidad to fall under, especially since we are stereotyped that way by foreigners who dont know any better.
In offering a valid solution for a term, I would say that we as a country, can have ignorant ways of thinking. From our politicians who say "I cant tell you where we will be placing the eye in the sky" (even though our taxes have paid for them), to our media who refuse to spell basic words correctly, we have an all-round problem. Syrians and Chinese Trinidadians can be just as ignorant as Indians and Africans in this country. But that doesnt mean that slavery hasnt influenced the ignorance of Indians and Africans. I am no expert though, so I'm not sure how accurate any opinion on the area could be.
In the first case, I have to agree that when Trini's see you with a man/woman "lighter skin" than you, they automatically think "you feel you better than we". It doesnt even refer to interracial couples. A "dark skin" Indian girl with a "light skin" Indian boy always gets more looks than two people of the same complexion. It is obvious that Trinidadians are obsessed with skin colour. Ive mentioned before that in alot of Indian homes, the colour of the person you are dating/marrying is of great importance. And I have had Afro-Trinidadian friends who said "no he too black" when referring to another negro person. So its not only one race.
In the second case portrayed..well..hm!...I can talk all day about this one. I have no respect for people who love another gender or race above their own. I'm not sure if that sounds bad, but I am a believer in defending your race and gender, within limits of course. But to actually outright dislike your race or your gender? Thats self hate and it is truly pathetic. A woman like this, who has no respect for her own race, more or less deserves to be referred to as a "coolie". Yes, that's wrong I know, but it's also true. Why demand respect for something you have no respect for? Please.
I agree with the notion that a man will treat a woman of a different race better. This is going to be quite controversial, but some African men shy away from the extremely independent disposition of African women. African women are comfortable raising their children alone, and not depending on a man. Indian women are taught to stand by their men, to take on duties of a wife etc. Both races have its benefit. I think a woman should take on certain responsibilities, while at the same time maintaining some level of independence. Conversly, some Indian men may like the assertiveness of an African women. Again, both cultures bring something different to the table.
In retrospect, I dont think I answered the question posited, but rather, the article LDS posted. Bottom line though, Trinidadians are more ignorant than primitive...the terms arent interchangeable. Self hate is something we have to address, so that we can start loving our gender, race and country.
|I think there may be a better word that can be used other than "primitive". It gives the impression that we swing on trees and havent learnt how to walk upright. This is not a category I would like Trinidad to fall under, especially since we are stereotyped that way by foreigners who dont know any better.|
|the shouting back in your shoulder like if everybody is deaf, urinating on walls on a busy road (and I am not talking about homeless people!) all those things are what I personally consider primitive. The "I doh care" attitude|
|some see white people like gods, they almost worship them|
|We wont go to another country and do the same nonsense we do here.|
|An Afro Trinidadian can go anywhere, meet an Indian person and relate to their culture. Theyve been exposed to it enough. That cannot be said about people in certain parts of the US and Europe, who are still in awe of Indian culture. But these people are not considered "primitive" are they? No, theyre just ignorant to another culture. We here are no different. We can only react to what we have been exposed to previously.|
What you deem as "primitive" behaviours, LDS, is a result of a political culture, along with our lack of exposure to Caucasions. I dont think either of this is our fault exactly, so I still consider it a form of ignorance.
|how can they be labeled as "ignorant" if they know better?|
|if you are on a maxi and people stares at you with a semi-open mouth constantly(women, men, or kids)|
|Trinidadians travel quite a bit to the US, England, Canada...countries with large population of Caucasians. Trinidad also have so many tourists all around. I think they just react what has been fed to them for generations: The "primitive" thinking that the white man is "better"|
|I see it more happening with our East Indian Trinis than Afro-Trinidadians (I hope I haven't offend anyone by this). It is just an observation.|