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How To Become Perfect - Page 2

Good point.

But I come from the perspective that we cannot earn Salvation in the typical sense, because we are still indebted to our savior for our obedience.

I believe that obedience and furthermore eventual perfection, largely, is a result of the redeeming power of repentance and the continual prompting of the holy spirit. When we come to the table and say "I have earned my perfection" we miss a higher point. That man is incapable of doing good on his own.

Alma 22:14

I think sometimes in the Church, we assume that we merit Salvation because of who we are. I think we should focus on what our Savior makes of us. Our Baptismal and Temple covenants are a tool the Savior uses to bring us to perfection and thus into his Father's presence.


From Heleman 14:13

It is through His merits that we are able to obtain perfection.

We also see in Moroni an important aspect of achieving perfection.
Moroni 10:32

1 Be perfected in Him (Christ)
2 By his Grace may ye be perfect in Christ.

We must always remember that perfection is achieved in Christ. The covenants we make with him do not put us on a path where we earn our Salvation, but rather on the path the Lord gives us that we may be Sanctified and perfected by His atonement.

Perfect To How

I dont think anyone could become perfect in this life. Doesnt the scriptures say that only Jesus Christ was perfect anyways?

How To Become Perfect Studies Doctrine Mormon

I do not think that the Lord expects us to be perfect in this life. He just wants us to be heading in the right direction.

Page 2 Perfect To How

Are you sure that is doctrinal?

Perfect To How

You would think so, but no. There are many beliefs like this that the devil tries to both make common and unquestionable. The reason is that if people do not believe that they can achieve a particular goal, then they can't. It's like the 4 minute mile, nobody can do it, so nobody does. Even scientists said it was not humanly possible because our bodies are not designed to run that fast. Then the 4 minute mile was broken, and now your not even a valid competitor in the world arena if you can't run less than a 4 minute mile.

In the case of perfection, if you don't think you can, you can. If you think you can't, your are right. There are many who have "been made perfect". For example: Seth the son of Adam, before the atonement.

Adam, Seth's father, also was "perfect" prior to dying, along with many, many others. In the scriptures, they do not usually say a person was perfect. In fact, there is no scripture that says Christ was perfect. And if you are looking for a scripture that says Christ was "sinless", you won't find it. The word "sinless" doesn't appear anywhere in scriptures. Now, that being said, Christ was perfect, but not in the way most people would think. And the way most people think of perfection makes it unattainable for everyone, even Christ. This is where Satans lie comes in. If you are looking for the wrong thing, you'll never find the right one or recognize it because it does not come in a form you are looking for. It then becomes "unachievable" for the masses.
For example, most people would think perfect means "complete" or "finished". Christ was perfect before he was completed or finished. In fact, to complicate matters or at least to make the point more clear, the status of "God" can also be achieved in this life. (Which most people do not understand, and others would say we are all Gods already.)

Rather off topic, but... To make this point, I refer both to the Holy Ghost, and the premortal Jesus Christ, (Jehovah), who are both Gods and yet had no body and had not experienced life in the flesh. This lack of progression was not enough to prevent them from being Gods. Also, by reading D&C 76 which speaking of those who make their calling and election sure says, "they are Gods" presently and "they shall have part in the first resurrection" in the future. This should not seem so strange when you consider that Christ was a God as a mortal and a premortal being.

The progression in this life, or the next goes from Unjust = Telestial, Just = Terrestrial, Just made Perfect = Celestial. Another way of saying it is, No Law = Telestial, Lower law of Justice or Law of Moses or Aaronic Priesthood or Church of Jesus Christ of LDS = Terrestial where Christ Rules, Higher Law of Mercy or Melchizedek Priesthood or General Assembly and Church of the First Born = Celestial.
Those who have their calling and election are considered "just men/women made perfect", hence they qualify for the CK. This is why all the prophets both ancient and modern have told us to seek making our calling and election sure. There are many who have this blessing, (CE & Perfection), today, in fact there are more today than ever before.
I really enjoyed your last post dbackers! There was so much I would love to repeat! Here is a little known concept. When speaking of Christ, the scriptures are referring to the 1) person or 2) the principle of Christ. They are interchangeable. The principle of Christ is Love or Charity. when we read the word Christ you can swap it with the word "Love" and it will open insights not available otherwise. For example:

Christ the person cannot be in you, but Christ the principle of Love/Charity can be. And as Love of God and Love of all men is what all the law and commandments is based, if we have Love in us, then we will have life because we will be righteous.

As far as this conversation, the scriptures says, "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him,.... - Moro. 10:32" Applying the principle of Love/Charity to this scripture tells us,

In truth, this is what the atonement is all about. Teaching us to be Loving and Charitable towards one another. This was also the message of Christ both in his teachings and actions. This same Charity is what made Christ perfect, and those who are "Just" and wish to be made perfect must also become loving until their "bowels of mercy overpower their demands for justice."

"And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice,..." - Alma 34: 15
Not the bowels of God's mercy, because God is already perfect and merciful, but the bowels of our mercy must overpower our own demands for Justice for us to be made perfect like God. For it was this demand that caused the people in Christ's day to demand "Crucify him" and "Stone the harlot". And it is because of this same Demand for justice that we condemn our neighbors today for having a mote in their eye while we still have a beam logged in our eye preventing us from seeing. - Amonhi

Edited: Amonhi on 2nd Oct, 2007 - 9:28pm

How To Become Perfect

Fair question, and it may be my personal opinion, but I have several reasons I believe this to be doctrinal.

I believe that as members of the church we are either drawing closer to God (heading in the right direction) or we are withdrawing from him (heading in another direction).

From President Gordon B Hinkley's The Quest for excellence

I believe this implies that it is the direction of our travel toward God, not necessarily our speed.

From Joseph Smith

The important words for me are "if we pursue the path that leads to it". We are all on the path sometimes, yet when we sin we willingly choose to leave the path and follow another direction. The Lord expects us to speedily repent and return to his chosen path.

By saying he just wants us to be heading in the right direction, I am mirroring this admonition in D&C 88:67.

Eye be single to my Glory=Heading in the right direction=Getting closer to perfection.

Ok, it may be a stretch, but it helps me to picture the meaning of focusing on Christ.

How To Perfect - Page 2

dbackers,

How do relate this to my last post?: Posted on 10/02/07 at 4:23 pm

I am particularly interested in how you think Hinckley's quote and the other thoughts you presented relate to/with the following:

Seth, son of Adam was perfect:

Consider Job who was also perfect in this life:

And also Noah and his family...
"And thus Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord; for Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God, as did also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth." - Moses 8:27

Here Paul is speaking to those who are perfect and includes himself in that group by using the word, "US":

In one account, the rich man had an opportunity to become perfect...We have the same, do we not?

Notice here that even Christ learned obedience through the things which he suffered, just like we do now. (We suffer when we do not obey.) And Christ who learned obediance rather than knew obediance was "made perfect" not born perfect. (Very Interesting! yes?)

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" - Heb. 5:8

Perfection does not come by living law of Moses, the lower law or Aaronic priesthood, which is how the vase majority thinks it must come. Instead, it comes by being removed from the Lower Law by fulfilling it in you, just as Christ did. Then we live by the higher law or Mel. Priesthood which enables us to return to Gods presence.

Edited: Amonhi on 2nd Oct, 2007 - 11:50pm

How To Perfect Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

We were writing these posts at the same time so I was unable to respond to your post.

I think we need to differentiate between Christ who was without sin and Seth who was made perfect through the atonement of Jesus Christ.


From Joseph Wirthlin's "Guided by His Exemplary Life"

I think somewhere there is a difference in definitions between what these Apostles and Prophets are calling perfection and the adjective Perfect Man that Seth was. I am not sure what the difference is.

I think we must first define perfection before we can determine if we can achieve it in this life. When I think of perfection I think of "complete", meaning we have finished the plan the Savior has set for us. Under this definition Perfection can only be achieved after the resurrection. We can be "perfect" in that we are following the path the Savior has set for us including utilizing repentance and sanctification that leads unto the purifying of our souls.