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Close Topic OptionsMormon Church And Illegal Immigrants - Page 6 of 18
More opinions on both sides of the fence concerning - Page 6 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 1st May, 2010 - 12:33am
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Illegal Immigrant Mormons - "Lawmakers should show more compassion" - Could your Bishop or Full-Time Missionary be illegally in the USA and still serve in the Church?Mormon Church And Illegal Immigrants - Page 6
Are the people who hire illegal immigrants honest? Are they breaking the law? Encouraging illegal immigrants to stay is also encouraging their employers to continue to hire them. I wonder how that goes along with...
QUOTE (Temple interview) "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?"
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Post Date: 23rd Apr, 2010 - 1:10am / Post ID: #
Immigrants Illegal Church Mormon
Name: Paralegal
Comments: Yeah, but stealing identities is not specific to immigrants only. Most and the more severe ones are done by highly trained and technology knowledgeable individuals who for the most part are legal citizens. -I think- and illegals get blamed for all of it. So, I think that with illegals or not, identity theft will still be a problem.
Mormon Church And Illegal Immigrants Studies Doctrine Mormon
QUOTE (JoePublic @ 23-Apr 10, 1:10 AM) So, I think that with illegals or not, identity theft will still be a problem.
Hi Paralegal. My point in bringing up that specific topic wasn't about discussing whether or not it will still be a problem (because yes, American Citizens do it as well) but to refute your idea that what they're doing isn't dishonest. Stealing and faking documents is dishonest.
Post Date: 23rd Apr, 2010 - 10:12am / Post ID: #
Page 6 Immigrants Illegal Church Mormon
Name: Paralegal
Comments: I agree, to a point. It is wrong, but it's part of their situation. This is why I brought the above examples.
You see, It's wrong to kill; yet Nephi killed Laban.
It's worng to disobey God's commandments; yet Adam and Eve disobeyed.
It's wrong to lie; yet Nephi lied to Zoram.
Do you see my point?
These examples, I think, do apply. Because it is the same God today as it was with Adam,Nephi, etc. and The current Prophet today, (Prophet of the same God as Nephi and all) doesn't see it as unworthy to hold a temple recommend - to enter the same God's house )
Immigrants Illegal Church Mormon
Here is another way to reframe the debate. There are three pillars of Justice in modern society: Freedom, welfare, virtue. Societies, religions and institutions try to balance these pillars. I think that with illegal immigrants we are trying to figure this balance of justice. I think that with the church's statement they are taking part in this process of creating justice. What do these three pillars look like with illegal immigrants?
Mormon Church And Illegal Immigrants
No one has yet been able to answer my issue with the employers who hire these people. What, you think tens of thousands of people will come to Utah or wherever and just live on the welfare of the church? They have to be working somewhere and someone has to be ILLEGALLY hiring them without paper or tax work. I can't believe some of you can be so simple minded and naive with this.
Mormon Church Illegal Immigrants - Page 6
QUOTE I can't believe some of you can be so simple minded and naive with this.
I am not sure that because people have not answered your question makes them simple minded or naive. Perhaps the lack of an answer is acknowledgment of the complexity, and challenges of the issue. This issue is a very complex issue that affects us as a church, Christian, nation and our very humanity. Let's not forget that this issue goes well beyond Mexicans. In the Northeast of the US their are about 30,000+ illegal Irish immigrants. I hear nothing about them and what they take from us. Perhaps we need to consider race in this issue as well.
To address your question, I think the answer is complex. We in the Western world struggle between natural law and positive law I.e law of a nation. Do we have an obligation to any human to help them when they are in need? Does not the scriptures tell us to help the strangers in our land?
Do we have a moral obligation to help those who are desperate and in need? Can this charity be given in the form of an honest days work with wages?
On the other hand positive law demands that people need to be documented, and taxes paid regardless if it keeps us from living our religion or natural law. So in this case we have a conflict between 2 types of laws. The D&C tells us we have an obligation to natural law even when the laws of the land are not in harmony. (D&C 134)
Brigham young Said:
QUOTE "I would like to obey and place myself in subjection to every law of man. What then? Am I to disobey the law of God? Has any man a right to control my conscience, or your conscience? No man has a right to do it
(JD Volume 26, page 152)."
So do we as followers of Christ have an obligation to help those in need who are strangers in our land, even if the laws of the land forbid it? If this is your motive for hiring them, then I think you have a moral reason for doing so. Do I have a right to live my religion and control my conscience?
So as you can see this question is more complex then we may like for it to be. I am not saying that this is the answer to the problem, but I think it points out the complexity that the issue warrants. Its is something that I and others struggle with.
Message Edited...
Persephone: Please use the Quote Tags here. When you do not use these tags source material that is not your own may appear to be yours when it is not. The Source of your Quote should also be provided. See our Constructive Posting Policy.
So do we as followers of Christ have an obligation to help those in need who are strangers in our land, even if the laws of the land forbid it? If this is your motive for hiring them, then I think you have a moral reason for doing so. Do I have a right to live my religion and control my conscience?
So as you can see this question is more complex then we may like for it to be. I am not saying that this is the answer to the problem, but I think it points out the complexity that the issue warrants. Its is something that I and others struggle with.
Message Edited...Persephone: Please use the Quote Tags here. When you do not use these tags source material that is not your own may appear to be yours when it is not. The Source of your Quote should also be provided. See our Constructive Posting Policy.
Mormon Church Illegal Immigrants Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 6
More opinions on both sides of the fence concerning this issue. Those who are against it:
QUOTE Russell Pearce, the Arizona senator who proposed that state's tough anti-immigration law, is LDS and hails from Mesa, a stronghold of Mormonism. A former missionary for the faith, the Republican lawmaker points to LDS scripture to buttress his push for a crackdown on undocumented immigrants.
"We have a special duty [to] this land, this republic and to the rule of law," Pearce wrote in an e-mail. "It is our duty and well established in scripture and modern revelation."
He cites a verse from the Doctrine & Covenants, a part of the Mormon canon, that says to "let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land."
Pearce also refers to the Utah-based church's 12th Article of Faith, which says Mormons believe in "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law."
"We have a special duty [to] this land, this republic and to the rule of law," Pearce wrote in an e-mail. "It is our duty and well established in scripture and modern revelation."
He cites a verse from the Doctrine & Covenants, a part of the Mormon canon, that says to "let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land."
Pearce also refers to the Utah-based church's 12th Article of Faith, which says Mormons believe in "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law."
Those who support it:
QUOTE "I don't think the intent of the Article of Faith was to make us vigilantes and gatekeepers and create anti-immigrant rhetoric and climate," said Ignacio Garcia, a Brigham Young University history professor.
Those who come into this country without documentation make hard choices, Garcia said. "It's a violation of the law, sure, but circumstances often force people to decide to break one law to obey the higher law."
Those who come into this country without documentation make hard choices, Garcia said. "It's a violation of the law, sure, but circumstances often force people to decide to break one law to obey the higher law."
The Church position:
QUOTE The church takes a sort-of "don't ask, don't tell" approach to the immigration status of its own members. Some estimate that 50 percent to 75 percent of members in Utah's 100-plus Spanish-speaking congregations are undocumented. That includes many bishops, branch presidents, even stake presidents.
The church sends missionaries among undocumented immigrants across the country, baptizing many of them without asking about their status. It also allows them to go to the temple and on missions.
"We're not agents of the immigration service, and we don't pretend to be," LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland told The Salt Lake Tribune last year, "and we also don't break the law."
In January 2008, Marlin Jensen, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, was assigned by LDS President Thomas S. Monson to urge Utah legislators to use "compassion" in their immigration legislation.
The church sends missionaries among undocumented immigrants across the country, baptizing many of them without asking about their status. It also allows them to go to the temple and on missions.
"We're not agents of the immigration service, and we don't pretend to be," LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland told The Salt Lake Tribune last year, "and we also don't break the law."
In January 2008, Marlin Jensen, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, was assigned by LDS President Thomas S. Monson to urge Utah legislators to use "compassion" in their immigration legislation.
TOPIC: Mormon Church And Illegal Immigrants