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Food Shortage Controversy - Page 4

No changes are immediate, which is something we all need to understand. If we wanted something done for next year, we needed to start a few years ago because government and true change takes time. Since we didnt, there will be a few years of hardship as a result of our worldly poor planning. For years, the US government has been paying for farmers not to plant crops and guess what...some farmers got pretty used to getting paid not to farm, got out of the business or sold it to a large company.

Do we have to have ethanol? NO, but the greenies loved it until just a few weeks ago. Now they see it hurting others and are stepping away from biofuels quite a bit. If you put on the blinders to what mass production of ethanol means, it sounds great, but in reality it is far from it.

We have coal gasification technologies, but that means digging for coal (which the US still has quite a bit of). This can easily substitute for ethanol and as long as the coal is not on top of farmland, we are OK.

There are two choices and they have been expressed in various forms here...we can either out produce the worlds food and ethanol demands (need whole lot more farmers, farmland and nice new expensive farming equipment) or we can find a different means to ease our dependence on oil (lots of time to fully integrate a solution into the infrastructure). Turning off our lights and cycling to places we can helps, but as in the late 70's and early 80's the only thing that is going to fix this immediately is a decrease in the oil price (either by simply lowering price or pumping more).

As Farseer says in another thread, I am not excited by the ability of any government to do the right thing when it comes to making changes to benefit the economics of the world let alone a single country.

Oh and if there is any doubt that the production of ethanol is consuming substantial amounts of the agricultural production from the US, please read:

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/usda_projects_i.html

27% of the corn production of the US is going towards ethanol production. The good news is that there is something called cellulosic ethanol that would not require corn production, but that wont be viable until 2012. The effect of the US shifting towards more corn production has just barely begun to be felt, because it means less soybeans, wheat and other crops.

Edited: Vincenzo on 24th Apr, 2008 - 5:49am

Controversy Shortage Food

Actually if it is coal beds Chine is a vast source waiting for some real use. Yes North America can produce lots as well thus a cheaper source of fuel till the green power can be used. Only question is what is the cost to the environment?

It is a very nasty two edged sword pollution vs starvation.

Now I can not speak for the States but I can here is Ontario lets get those fertile lands that sit dormant back to use! Not huge big farms but the small family units you unemployed grab a shovel start turning sod and reaping the harvest by fall.

Cost of farm machinery is brutal but if the world needs the food then the small guy should be able to help produce crops to feed the local markets and leave the big farm to feed the world.

yes food might be a bit more expensive this way but at least it will be there.

Food Shortage Controversy History & Civil Business Politics

Some of the farms have been dormant for a bit and now the people who live there do not have the slightest clue on how to farm at all. They bought the farm from some other people and enjoy the money the government has given them no to farm. Free money whoopee. Now you want them to to do what? Raise crops? Noway just give us that free money for not planting. They do not care if the world starves they have plenty of food for now.

I do not know if this is the same elsewhere but the people I have talked to who live on a farm and have never farmed have said something pretty close to this. I do not speak for everyone just from what I have heard. Other places could be a lot different than the opinion expressed here.

Page 4 Controversy Shortage Food

Since you chose to ignore the question the first time I asked, I'll repeat myself. How many times have you, or anyone else, ever been employed by a poor person? I never have. Most of my past employers have been reasonable, normal, people just trying to make a living working for themselves. Some have been real jerks, but they would have been jerks if they were poor. I suppose I could be seen as 'the greedy ones in high places" by my imployees, but I doubt it. I have always treated an employee as an equal and asked for what I wanted. I never looked down my nose, or demanded anything. A good employee is a very valuable asset to a business.

Somehow I get the impression that you think anyone with money is greedy. I wasn't brought up that way. Anyone with money was looked up to and admired as a person you would like to be like someday. So I'm wondering why, in your world, is an employer automatically "greedy?"

Now, if you would please excuse me, I long ago lost count of how many times I was told to "STAY ON TOPIC!" I also know how to "build" on a topic, but I wasn't allowed. I'll say it again. What has 'the greedy boss, or "greedy people in high places" got to do with the "Food Shortage Controversy?"

OK. I'll draw my line. This mess didn't start out in higher more powerful places. It started with the hippie "flower children" of the 1960s. The pot smoking, acid dropping, cocaine users, of the 60s somehow saw a more perfect world than the one they lived in. It wasn't real, but they wanted it. So they started protesting everything they didn't like. They chained themselves to trees and invoked "The Spotted Owl" as endangered because it could only live in old growth forest. They managed to stop the logging in the northwest. We pay through the bloody nose for lumber now that is imported from Russia. Oh, and the spotted owl? They will live anywhere. They have been seen nesting in billboard signs.

They also used the blunt nosed lizard, the kangaroo rat, the desert tortoise, the kit fox, and some fly I can't remember the name of, and many more too numerous to mention to control the public and drive taxes up.

But let's get to the case in point. The food mess we are in right now started in the oilfields. They (the hippies) decided oil was dirty and everything associated with it was dirty. Millions have been spent in this area alone to stop a little "impure" water from being spilled on the ground at some of the wells. Standards have been raised and raised and raised again to make the gasoline engine more efficient. Who could guess what that cost? They haven't allowed a refinery to be built in the United States in over 30 years. They will not allow us to drill for our own oil. We buy gasoline and oil from foreign countries. Surprise, surprise! We have a shortage, but they mandate that we "fix" it by making ethanol out of food grains.

#1 Correct! The ozone hole was invented by the hippies. It doesn't exist. It is a little thinner at some times of the year, but like everything else on this earth it is cyclical and means nothing.

#2 Correct! But the dirty truth is that American farmers being as ingenious as they are saw this coming and planted a lot of corn. We have more corn than we know what to do with right now.

#3 Correct! But Sam's Club and Costco made news one day only by stopping the hoarding. You can buy all the rice you want, but only 4 bags a day.

AMEN!

I don't believe this has anything to do with conspiracies, or big secrets in dark corners. There would have to be too many people keeping a global secret to pull it off.

Controversy Shortage Food

Can someone besides Mousetrails tell me where I give that impression in this Thread? Sorry, I just don't get you Mousetrails, maybe someone else will entertain whatever concept / perspective you have, because I just do not understand your rants in relation to what I've been saying, and no, you do not have to repeat yourself.

Food Shortage Controversy

I have said what I thought had happened with the comment but now reading you latest post Mousetrails I ponder how much you turn a blind eye to. I know your mind is open on so many things your books display that very well. But how come I am getting the idea here maybe you are closed to the idea that is is not a conspiracy but just greed by some of the top companies in the oil industries.

Now basic economics says these company boards are doing just what they should maximizing profits for the share holders. So can we blame them for doing their jobs well? Yes we can because our hippie friends though colorful might just be right the companies need to keep in mind if we destroy the environment they will be out of business because the people their customers will be dead.

Ok so how is that balanced? To me so far it has been very unbalanced and we are now just pulling it in. Yes there is a great cost to this and much new development is required and yes the consumer will pay for it.


So in part yes Moustrails the hippies did ramp up the cost but perhaps it was not all for the bad. Higher prices means new ideas that if we are lucky might resolve some issues our past practices created.

I have seen a tow truck that ran on less fuel then a Volkswagen. I have rode in a 350 Chevy that got 60 miles to the gallon with a 350 big block. Where is this technology sitting? In the GM patent office collecting dust. How do I now because the two people lived in my home town and are very well off yes in the 7 digits. So you tell me if the the Auto company is not in co harts with the oil industry ensuring the demand for oil is kept up why are we not seeing real improvements in car technology in the efficiency department? Greed is the only word that comes to my mind.

Oh by they way it was the carburetor on the Chevy that was tweaked, GM showed up and placed a sludge hammer on it right after they paid the man his due. I went to school with his son.

I had cars that weighed 5000 plus pound and had big motors that ran 27 28 mPg combined. Today you by a car half the weight and a smaller motor and yet they still only see 32 33 mPg if you are lucky. How is that much of an improvement over 30 years? Yes the car is more reliable does not rust as fast and you change the plugs less but still drink almost the same amount of gas....

Mousetails perhaps you can explain this to me if it is not just greed in this industry. Once upon a time just about when I was born one bought unleaded gas ran just fine so the motor car industry decides you know what lead is a great solution to run on and at the same time out west I think it was near Edmonton a man had the 200 mPg Cadillac and was selling the fuel system to people who oddly enough were happy to pay him for it. So then the oil company says yes we can add that lead but it will cost more. Fair enough they are adding more into the processing of it. Then this lead just happens to foul all those nice fuels systems people bought and he is out of the picture.(This to me is just a curious side line that happened at the same time.) Now with the knowledge that lead is a poison it is now no longer to be added to the gas. Did the price drop nope they charged more for the unleaded gas as they claimed it cost money to take it out! Now I am not the smartest in the bunch here but at some point the oil company here has told a big fat whopper and we all bought it or at least did not protest it hard enough.

So tell me Moustrails is good business just one that makes money or is it one that looks after the interest of its customer and treats them honestly. I am betting you would not have pulled a stunt like this our you would not be in business. So why is it OK for these oil companies who have a private market (by our own doing) allowed to do as they will with no fear of repercussion.

Also how is this all the fault of the hippies as I do not see that line and do need it drawn for me. As I have said many times I fail to see what is plain to many it is part of my unique thought patterns that made me struggle hard though school.

For the record I was taught to admire some one who has worked hard and made their fortune. I do feel good when I bump into an old friend who has done well and can retire at 40. Then I ponder how on earth they managed to think of the ideas that got them there. You know the answer more then not is they just would not settle for less.

Edited: krakyn on 25th Apr, 2008 - 2:12pm

Food Shortage Controversy - Page 4

I do not understand how people say that global warming is not occurring? If you look at the past histories you can see that humans have caused the mean temp of the earth to rise. For the first time in many many centuries of warming and cooling we are seeing places that were once covered by snow and ice. Look at glaciers that have been around since the last ice age. They are almost totaly gone now. I would not be surprised to see bare land on antarctica soon. Global warming is happening and the earth may continue to warm up for the next few years before a correction is made. This is changing the weather patterns and it is going to effect the crops and growing seasons farmers see. I believe things are going to get worse in the next few years. Maybe we as a race will learn that mother earth can stop feeding us.

Food Shortage Controversy Politics Business Civil & History - Page 4

In your own words JB.

Sorry guys. I lived it and watched it happen, but I don't seem to be able to explain it to your satisfaction. I'm going to pull in my horns, tuck my tail, and go back where it's peaceful.