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Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage - Page 4

Exactly. Why can't the parents have some say in what their children are taught in school? There is a program in the 4th and 5th grades (ages 8, 9, 10) that teaches the basics of puberty to boys and girls, and that program has a big deal with the parental notification and permission slips and even a time where parents can preview the materials that will be presented so they can make an informed decision.

Why would they not have the same thing with same-sex relationships and same-sex marriage? That type of relationship is not currently discussed or taught in public schools, but it certainly will be with the advent of the defeat of this proposition. If it is, I'm not in favor of my daughter being taught by anyone else about this topic other than myself. Would they give me that choice, or will it just be something that comes up in biology or political science?

The main points I have with the legalization of same-sex marriage is (1) that freedom of choice for churches to refuse to marry same-sex couples will be over-ridden by the actions of 4 judges who overturned the law that was approved by a majority (61%) of California voters in 2000; and (2) public schools will teach about same-sex relationships as normal and proper -- which I disagree with.

Rather off topic, but... Sort of off topic...Throughout our trip this past weekend, I saw a lot of "Yes on Prop 8" yard signs and bumper stickers - a LOT. I saw only ONE "No on Prop 8" yard sign -- and I traveled 1,000 miles round trip, with a lot of side trips with my family. On the highway descending into the Los Angeles basin, a car that had been behind us for some time suddenly pulled up on the left (driver's) side and then dropped their speed even with us. One gentleman on their passenger side waved "Hello" and smiled ... I waved back. Then he flashed 8 fingers and gave a "thumb's down" signal, repeating this gesture several times. (Yes, I have a "Yes on Prop 8" bumper sticker.) I just smiled and blew him a kiss... no hard feelings, you have your opinion, I have mine sort of thing. And they sped off.

Marriage Same-Sex Proposition

So I guess this will be the most organized post I've made:

I've said it before, but the government has no right to interfere with the ideas of religious institutions outside of inhumane activities. But, I really don't think a yes or no answer is going to be the answer to this solution. Look at what our country stands for after all! Freedom, Democracy, and the American dream! Yes, it may not be right to allow the marriage of same-sex couples, but who is it going to hurt with the "Registered Domestic Partners" idea? They are not ruining Traditional Marriage, that is a heterosexuals job. They get to establish new ground with more.... Would you call it a divorce with an RPD? Anyways, they need to do more to find a common ground instead of a flat out no, or yes. It may be a lot of paper work, but it defiantly does establish a compromise.

And you know? I don't think they really teach about marriage in school. Albeit that they take 12 years of your life to teach you how to live in today's world, not how to be successful, that requires college. But, I can honestly say that they don't really teach it, I don't know of any class that would though, outside of a college course. I'm not from California (I'm just assuming your in California, don't get mad if it is wrong, but please correct me) but I didn't think they had political science outside of college? And, if it is just a college course, they don't really need the governments opinion on what they do, and do not teach. Unless it is a community college of course.

Also, they teach about reproduction in biology. That is the closest thing I can remember that was near to it, and I took biology last year. They never taught about Marriage. Also, I don't think there is very much "Reproducing" going on in same-sex couples. I don't really think there is much of a science to what happens in same-sex couples to begin with.

Rather off topic, but... I guess this is kind of like generalizing but, it has been the stereotype that a majority of republicans are rich business owners always looking to make a quick buck. But, as I said before with my trip to the Democrat Headquarters. They were discussing this issue, taking the typical liberal approach saying, it should be legal for "Gays" as they said (I'm from a very southern place) to get married. But, the entire time, one of the participants in this conversation kept on bringing up discrimination and saying "you should check out the book I wrote about prejudice". So, I fuess that is my fault to generalize.

But, I guess with peoples knowledge of that particular amendment is good. Usually nobody knows what any amendment is until the day before election, but even then their numbers a few and far spread out.

Edited: Rhieland on 21st Oct, 2008 - 3:11am

Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage History & Civil Business Politics

I was intending to use my experience, which happened to be at a Christian school, to provide an example of how a controversial subject was handled at the school.

I think that the manner in which controversial subjects were handled at that school would be a fair way to handle the same-sex marriage issue. The students can be taught what happens in the world in an unbiased manner and the students can then go home to the guidance of their parents to help them in making a decision on what they believe is right or wrong, as opposed to outright telling the students that same-sex marriage is wrong or not telling them it exists, or outright telling them that it's OK. As long as the subject is addressed properly at school and with the parents, the child won't stumble upon the subject later and make an uninformed decision on the matter.

As for the marriage issue, I completely agree with you. However, in obtaining that marriage certificate, I don't feel it's right to force a church to perform a marriage that is against the principles of the church. The marriage should be performed at a church where same-sex marriage is supported.

Page 4 Marriage Same-Sex Proposition

Oh ok, so then just teach them that it does exist but don't say anything biased on the subject? That makes sense, but your always going to have that one teacher that throws in his/her opinion. Also, and this depends heavily upon the child's upbringing, but mainly teenagers are influenced more heavily from peers than parents.

Rather off topic, but... We just went over this in psychology, so I don't have a cited site, But I would be happy to copy from my textbook if you want me too

Also, by time a child becomes a teenager, they tend to want to form there own opinions based upon what they have observed growing up, and usually try to think outside of what their parents teach. Hence why they seek to become independent, this is called the "Identity" stage. But, they usually only change their opinions based on hard facts or peers. Also, by time you hit 20, what your opinion on everything is, tends to stay the same. But that is because of neurological connections being finalized. So in other words. Once your child becomes a teenager, there really isn't much you can do that will influence your kid as a parent, and usually teachers don't provide that much influence unless they are just known to the individual to be intelligent. So only the past really brings to great affect of what the individual knows, and thinks. Me personally, I'm more acceptant towards it because, my dad's brother is in a same-sex marriage.

Also, I don't care if anyone bans marriage to same-sex couples. But, it does go without saying that banning any union of a same-sex couple does seem kind of wrong. Traditionally it is right, but in modern days it is bad because that means, everything comes with two separate bills, instead of one for the household. That is of course if insurance companies and such, have it to where you can put two people on the same bill without much complication. Also, don't you get benefits on your insurance when your married? If so, then completely banning everything all together for same-sex couples is kind of like making them pay more for being homosexual. That is kind of wrong too.

Sorry to stress the issue a bit more than I already did, but do you personally find it acceptable to establish a common ground that appeals to both sides of the coin Farseer? Not trying to sound arrogant or anything, I'm just wanting to see if there is a chance for common ground without controversy still.

Edited: Rhieland on 21st Oct, 2008 - 4:53pm

Marriage Same-Sex Proposition

The debate over Proposition 8 is getting uglier:

They're stealing the road signs?! That's ridiculous. But guess what? It's happening right here in my little town, too. A couple of my friends had been out volunteering for the Yes on 8 campaign, putting up signs on busy street corners all over town. When they were done for the day and retraced their route, the found that several places had been completely stripped of the signs they put up.

Now, here's the other side:

Terrible tactics on both sides, but this letter demanding money takes the prize for all time low, in my opinion.

Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage

The only thing I can say about the road sign is, people pay tax dollars for the county to keep those roads up. Probably should be up to people too to decide what advertisement is there too. But, there really isn't a peaceful solution to it either. It happens here too. Actually I know a guy who went around his entire neighborhood picking up McCain signs at night. Found it amusing that he was then chased half a mile by an ex-marine.So I really wouldn't consider that an ugly situation.

The next one, the blackmail. That is going to a bit of the extreme. Although not quite an escalated situation. But, should civil life begin to enter atrophy. Then It might be getting out of control. Also, blackmail is a crime if I'm not mistaken. Court would probably be the best solution for now.

Proposition 8 Same-Sex Marriage - Page 4

It's a against the law (probably only a misdemeanor) to remove or destroy campaign signs that have been properly displayed on public property. Each campaign is responsible for removing them after the elections.

If someone were taking down ALL political campaign signs, that might be different; but when they are taking ONLY the ones they disagree with, that's wrong.

Proposition 8 Same-Sex Marriage Politics Business Civil & History - Page 4

Someone should have taped that. I probably would have died laughing.

The people who were taking down the signs could have better spent their time putting up their own signs.

I agree, Farseer, that sending blackmail letters is pretty low. It also makes the senders look pretty immature and irrational.