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Close Topic OptionsDo You Consider Yourself To Be A Zionist? - Page 2 of 4
I really don't know where you get - Page 2 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 5th Oct, 2009 - 8:35pm
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Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Zionist? - Page 2
I am a Zionist (I believe, in its purist forms, is one of the most exciting movements in the world) primarily because of the dedication of the Land of Jerusalem by Orson Hyde for the Gathering of the Jews and the building of the temple. Christ has stated he will not return until the Jews Gather to the area, and it has been prophesied that they must do so before the Second Coming of Christ.
From the dedicatory prayer:
QUOTE Thy servant has been obedient to the heavenly vision which Thou gavest him in his native land; and under the shadow of Thine outstretched arm, he has safely arrived in this place to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah's scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets -- for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honor of Thy name....
Let them know that it is Thy good pleasure to restore the kingdom unto Israel -- raise up Jerusalem as its capital, and constitute her people a distinct nation and government, with David Thy servant, even a descendant from the loins of ancient David to be their king.
It seems that Judah, in the eyes of the Lord, must gather to the area. I believe it is God's will and through his divine intervention, that Israel was created as a distinct nation and government. As Latter Day Saints I believe it is Doctrine to support such an endeavor, in order for the prophesied events that must occur before the Second Coming of Christ.
Orson Hyde in the Dedication of the land for the gathering of the Jews stated clearly that any Nation that fights against the work of the Gathering will be utterly wasted and shall perish.
QUOTE while that nation or kingdom that will not serve Thee in this glorious work must perish, according to Thy word --- Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
As we see in the Six Day War, the lord was indeed protecting Israel, and continues to do so. Though I do not believe that they have the full protection of the Lord yet.
Unless one believes that this dedication was utterly false doctrine, I am not sure how any Latter Day Saint can be against the creation and establishment of Israel in the area. I can understand how some would disagree with some actions of the State of Israel, but not to the extent to believe that they should ever be removed or should never have existed in the first place.
We can clearly blame, in part Orson Hyde and the Lord, for the establishment and creation of the State of Israel. Thank God for that.
But I am a little apprehensive of the prophesied War that will take place in the area. The loss of life will be extreme.
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Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Zionist? Studies Doctrine Mormon
QUOTE Dbackers why in the world do you even want to label yourself as such? ("Zionist")
The word Zionism or Zionist has a no negative connotation for me. I actually support the right of Jews to return to the land around Jerusalem. I want there to be a strong Jewish presence, and a strong Jewish State (both militarily and spiritually). I believe that they were destined to return and create a state in the area. I hold these views primarily because of the dedicatory prayer that was given by Orson Hyde, and the positive views that Joseph Smith had for the return of Jews to the area. In fact I love the state of Israel (second only to my love of the United States), and believe it is the most Democratic and righteous country in the area (Were else could the Church build a place such as BYU Jerusalem? Iran, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia? Not likely)
And I believe, Orson Hyde's words are literally coming true. Israel does have Jerusalem as its Spiritual Capital, and God has raised a distinct Government and Nation. I truly believe that any nation that fights them will ultimately be destroyed.
I believe that it is Satan who has created the negative connotation of Zionism and a desire to "Wipe Israel off the map". When I consider some of the individuals and groups who despise Zionism, I realize that I am fine with the label and in fact cling more tightly to the word as a Latter Day Saint.
Some of those who embrace anti-Zionism:
Noam Chomsky
Hugo Chavez
Fidel and Raul Castro
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright (President Obama's pastor)
Hezbollah
Bin Laden
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
The group "The Nation of Aztlan"
Moammar Kadafi
Moslem Brotherhood,
Saudi Arabia (Text books used for children state Jews are apes, and Christians Swines)
Robert Mugabe
Al Sharpton
The KU Klux Klan
Hamas
Louis Farrakhan
Yasser Arafat (may his soul rot in hell)
The Taliban
The UN
Much of the propaganda by these leaders and organizations are outright fabrications. Many of them show much of the same contempt for Conservative Christians as they do Jews. It is notable that many of them also show much of the same hatred and loathing for the United States.
Not everyone in the world has been duped by these idiots (or holds the word Zionism in derision). Why anyone would believe anything they say baffles me.
Rather off topic, but...
Is it a stretch to believe that God is in fact using Zionism to achieve His goals in the fulfilling of Prophesy? I do not believe so.
Is it a stretch to believe that God is in fact using Zionism to achieve His goals in the fulfilling of Prophesy? I do not believe so.
Page 2 Zionist Be Yourself You Do
Those are great points.
Did you know that up until the Arab states attacked Israel in 1948, Zionism was all about purchasing the land from the Arabs? When the Jews took possession of the land that they had purchased, they immediately began to improve it. Suddenly, the "worthless" land that the Arab landowners had laughed about selling to the Jews became very valuable. Suddenly the Arabs were upset that those crafty Jews had "swindled" them out of good land.
In the late 1800s, when the Jews began to purchase the land and move there, they found that the majority of people living there were Jews. Almost all of the Arabs/Muslims living there were poor "sharecroppers" who owned nothing besides the clothes on their backs. In fact, according to newspaper reports from the time, most of them weren't even Arab, but were poor Muslims that had been pushed out of their homes.
The lies and distortions about the Zionist movement, the Israeli government, and especially the Israeli military are legion. But then, we have discussed most of them in the topic specifically about Israel.
I find Orson Hyde's prayer to be one of the most incredible proofs of God's specific interest in the region in recent history. Here it is, from History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Volume 4, pg 456 - 459.
QUOTE "O Thou! who art from everlasting to everlasting, eternally and unchangeably the same, even the God who rules in the heavens above, and controls the destinies of men on the earth, wilt Thou not condescend, through thine infinite goodness and royal favor, to listen to the prayer of Thy servant which he this day offers up unto Thee in the name of Thy holy child Jesus, upon this land, where the Son of Righteousness set in blood, and thine Anointed One expired.
"Be pleased, O Lord, to forgive all the follies, weaknesses, vanities, and sins of Thy servant, and strengthen him to resist all future temptations. Give him prudence and discernment that he may avoid the evil, and a heart to choose the good; give him fortitude to bear up under trying and adverse circumstances, and grace to endure all things for Thy name's sake, until the end shall come, when all the Saints shall rest in peace.
Now, O Lord! Thy servant has been obedient to the heavenly vision which Thou gavest him in his native land; and under the shadow of Thine outstretched arm, he has safely arrived in this place to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah's scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets-for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honor of Thy name. Everlasting thanks be ascribed unto Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou hast preserved Thy servant from the dangers of the seas, and from the plague and pestilence which have caused the land to mourn. The violence of man has also been restrained, and Thy providential care by night and by day has been exercised over Thine unworthy servant. Accept, therefore, O Lord, the tribute of a grateful heart for all past favors, and be pleased to continue Thy kindness and mercy towards a needy worm of the dust.
"O Thou, Who didst covenant with Abraham, Thy friend, and who didst renew that covenant with Isaac, and confirm the same with Jacob with an oath, that Thou wouldst not only give them this land for an everlasting inheritance, but that Thou wouldst also remember their seed forever. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have long since closed their eyes in death, and made the grave their mansion. Their children are scattered and dispersed abroad among the nations of the Gentiles like sheep that have no shepherd, and are still looking forward for the fulfillment of those promises which Thou didst make concerning them; and even this land, which once poured forth nature's richest bounty, and flowed, as it were, with milk and honey, has, to a certain extent, been smitten with barrenness and sterility since it drank from murderous hands the blood of Him who never sinned.
"Grant, therefore, O Lord, in the name of Thy well-beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to remove the barrenness and sterility of this land, and let springs of living water break forth to water its thirsty soil. Let the vine and olive produce in their strength, and the fig-tree bloom and flourish. Let the land become abundantly fruitful when possessed by its rightful heirs; let it again flow with plenty to feed the returning prodigals who come home with a spirit of grace and supplication; upon it let the clouds distil virtue and richness, and let the fields smile with plenty. Let the flocks and the herds greatly increase and multiply upon the mountains and the hills; and let Thy great kindness conquer and subdue the unbelief of Thy people. Do Thou take from them their stony heart, and give them a heart of flesh; and may the Sun of Thy favor dispel the cold mists of darkness which have beclouded their atmosphere. Incline them to gather in upon this land according to Thy word. Let them come like clouds and like doves to their windows. Let the large ships of the nations bring them from the distant isles; and let kings become their nursing fathers, and queens with motherly fondness wipe the tear of sorrow from their eye.
"Thou, O Lord, did once move upon the heart of Cyrus to show favor unto Jerusalem and her children. Do Thou now also be pleased to inspire the hearts of kings and the powers of the earth to look with a friendly eye towards this place, and with a desire to see Thy righteous purposes executed in relation thereto. Let them know that it is Thy good pleasure to restore the kingdom unto Israel-raise up Jerusalem as its capital, and constitute her people a distinct nation and government, with David Thy servant, even a descendant from the loins of ancient David to be their king.
"Let that nation or that people who shall take an active part in behalf of Abraham's children, and in the raising up of Jerusalem, find favor in Thy sight. Let not their enemies prevail against them, neither let pestilence or famine overcome them, but let the glory of Israel overshadow them, and the power of the Highest protect them; while that nation or kingdom that will not serve Thee in this glorious work must perish, according to Thy word-Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted."
"Though Thy servant is now far from his home, and from the land bedewed with his earliest tear, yet he remembers, O Lord, his friends who are there, and family, whom for Thy sake he has left. Though poverty and privation be our earthly lot, yet ah! do Thou richly endow us with an inheritance where moth and rust do not corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
"The hands that have fed, clothed, or shown favor unto the family of Thy servant in his absence, or that shall hereafter do so, let them not lose their reward, but let a special blessing rest upon them, and in Thy kingdom let them have an inheritance when Thou shalt come to be glorified in this society.
"Do Thou also look with favor upon all those through whose liberality I have been enabled to come to this land; and in the day when Thou shalt reward all people according to their works, let these also not be passed by or forgotten, but in time let them be in readiness to enjoy the glory of those mansions which Jesus has gone to prepare. Particularly do Thou bless the stranger in Philadelphia, whom I never saw, but who sent me gold, with a request that I should pray for him in Jerusalem. Now, O Lord, let blessings come upon him from an unexpected quarter, and let his basket be filled, and his storehouse abound with plenty, and let not the good things of the earth be his only portion, but let him be found among those to whom it shall be said, 'Thou hast been faithful over a few things, and I will make thee ruler over many.'
"O my Father in heaven! I now ask Thee in the name of Jesus to remember Zion, with all her Stakes, and with all her assemblies. She has been grievously afflicted and smitten; she has mourned; she has wept; her enemies have triumphed, and have said, 'Ah, where is thy God?' Her Priests and Prophets have groaned in chains and fetters within the gloomy walls of prisons, while many were slain, and now sleep in the arms of death. How long, O Lord, shall iniquity triumph, and sin go unpunished?
"Do Thou arise in the majesty of Thy strength, and make bare Thine arm in behalf of Thy people. Redress their wrongs, and turn their sorrow into joy. Pour the spirit of light and knowledge, grace and wisdom, into the hearts of her Prophets, and clothe her Priests with salvation. Let light and knowledge march forth through the empire of darkness, and may the honest in heart flow to their standard, and join in the march to go forth to meet the Bridegroom.
Let a peculiar blessing rest upon the Presidency of Thy Church, for at them are the arrows of the enemy directed. Be Thou to them a sun and a shield, their strong tower and hiding place; and in the time of distress or danger be Thou near to deliver. Also the quorum of the Twelve, do Thou be pleased to stand by them for Thou knowest the obstacles which they have to encounter, the temptations to which they are exposed, and the privations which they must suffer. Give us, [the Twelve] therefore, strength according to our day, and help us to bear a faithful testimony of Jesus and His Gospel, to finish with fidelity and honor the work which Thou hast given us to do, and then give us a place in Thy glorious kingdom. And let this blessing rest upon every faithful officer and member in Thy Church. And all the glory and honor will we ascribe unto God and the Lamb forever and ever. Amen."
"Be pleased, O Lord, to forgive all the follies, weaknesses, vanities, and sins of Thy servant, and strengthen him to resist all future temptations. Give him prudence and discernment that he may avoid the evil, and a heart to choose the good; give him fortitude to bear up under trying and adverse circumstances, and grace to endure all things for Thy name's sake, until the end shall come, when all the Saints shall rest in peace.
Now, O Lord! Thy servant has been obedient to the heavenly vision which Thou gavest him in his native land; and under the shadow of Thine outstretched arm, he has safely arrived in this place to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah's scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets-for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honor of Thy name. Everlasting thanks be ascribed unto Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou hast preserved Thy servant from the dangers of the seas, and from the plague and pestilence which have caused the land to mourn. The violence of man has also been restrained, and Thy providential care by night and by day has been exercised over Thine unworthy servant. Accept, therefore, O Lord, the tribute of a grateful heart for all past favors, and be pleased to continue Thy kindness and mercy towards a needy worm of the dust.
"O Thou, Who didst covenant with Abraham, Thy friend, and who didst renew that covenant with Isaac, and confirm the same with Jacob with an oath, that Thou wouldst not only give them this land for an everlasting inheritance, but that Thou wouldst also remember their seed forever. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have long since closed their eyes in death, and made the grave their mansion. Their children are scattered and dispersed abroad among the nations of the Gentiles like sheep that have no shepherd, and are still looking forward for the fulfillment of those promises which Thou didst make concerning them; and even this land, which once poured forth nature's richest bounty, and flowed, as it were, with milk and honey, has, to a certain extent, been smitten with barrenness and sterility since it drank from murderous hands the blood of Him who never sinned.
"Grant, therefore, O Lord, in the name of Thy well-beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to remove the barrenness and sterility of this land, and let springs of living water break forth to water its thirsty soil. Let the vine and olive produce in their strength, and the fig-tree bloom and flourish. Let the land become abundantly fruitful when possessed by its rightful heirs; let it again flow with plenty to feed the returning prodigals who come home with a spirit of grace and supplication; upon it let the clouds distil virtue and richness, and let the fields smile with plenty. Let the flocks and the herds greatly increase and multiply upon the mountains and the hills; and let Thy great kindness conquer and subdue the unbelief of Thy people. Do Thou take from them their stony heart, and give them a heart of flesh; and may the Sun of Thy favor dispel the cold mists of darkness which have beclouded their atmosphere. Incline them to gather in upon this land according to Thy word. Let them come like clouds and like doves to their windows. Let the large ships of the nations bring them from the distant isles; and let kings become their nursing fathers, and queens with motherly fondness wipe the tear of sorrow from their eye.
"Thou, O Lord, did once move upon the heart of Cyrus to show favor unto Jerusalem and her children. Do Thou now also be pleased to inspire the hearts of kings and the powers of the earth to look with a friendly eye towards this place, and with a desire to see Thy righteous purposes executed in relation thereto. Let them know that it is Thy good pleasure to restore the kingdom unto Israel-raise up Jerusalem as its capital, and constitute her people a distinct nation and government, with David Thy servant, even a descendant from the loins of ancient David to be their king.
"Let that nation or that people who shall take an active part in behalf of Abraham's children, and in the raising up of Jerusalem, find favor in Thy sight. Let not their enemies prevail against them, neither let pestilence or famine overcome them, but let the glory of Israel overshadow them, and the power of the Highest protect them; while that nation or kingdom that will not serve Thee in this glorious work must perish, according to Thy word-Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted."
"Though Thy servant is now far from his home, and from the land bedewed with his earliest tear, yet he remembers, O Lord, his friends who are there, and family, whom for Thy sake he has left. Though poverty and privation be our earthly lot, yet ah! do Thou richly endow us with an inheritance where moth and rust do not corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
"The hands that have fed, clothed, or shown favor unto the family of Thy servant in his absence, or that shall hereafter do so, let them not lose their reward, but let a special blessing rest upon them, and in Thy kingdom let them have an inheritance when Thou shalt come to be glorified in this society.
"Do Thou also look with favor upon all those through whose liberality I have been enabled to come to this land; and in the day when Thou shalt reward all people according to their works, let these also not be passed by or forgotten, but in time let them be in readiness to enjoy the glory of those mansions which Jesus has gone to prepare. Particularly do Thou bless the stranger in Philadelphia, whom I never saw, but who sent me gold, with a request that I should pray for him in Jerusalem. Now, O Lord, let blessings come upon him from an unexpected quarter, and let his basket be filled, and his storehouse abound with plenty, and let not the good things of the earth be his only portion, but let him be found among those to whom it shall be said, 'Thou hast been faithful over a few things, and I will make thee ruler over many.'
"O my Father in heaven! I now ask Thee in the name of Jesus to remember Zion, with all her Stakes, and with all her assemblies. She has been grievously afflicted and smitten; she has mourned; she has wept; her enemies have triumphed, and have said, 'Ah, where is thy God?' Her Priests and Prophets have groaned in chains and fetters within the gloomy walls of prisons, while many were slain, and now sleep in the arms of death. How long, O Lord, shall iniquity triumph, and sin go unpunished?
"Do Thou arise in the majesty of Thy strength, and make bare Thine arm in behalf of Thy people. Redress their wrongs, and turn their sorrow into joy. Pour the spirit of light and knowledge, grace and wisdom, into the hearts of her Prophets, and clothe her Priests with salvation. Let light and knowledge march forth through the empire of darkness, and may the honest in heart flow to their standard, and join in the march to go forth to meet the Bridegroom.
Let a peculiar blessing rest upon the Presidency of Thy Church, for at them are the arrows of the enemy directed. Be Thou to them a sun and a shield, their strong tower and hiding place; and in the time of distress or danger be Thou near to deliver. Also the quorum of the Twelve, do Thou be pleased to stand by them for Thou knowest the obstacles which they have to encounter, the temptations to which they are exposed, and the privations which they must suffer. Give us, [the Twelve] therefore, strength according to our day, and help us to bear a faithful testimony of Jesus and His Gospel, to finish with fidelity and honor the work which Thou hast given us to do, and then give us a place in Thy glorious kingdom. And let this blessing rest upon every faithful officer and member in Thy Church. And all the glory and honor will we ascribe unto God and the Lamb forever and ever. Amen."
I guess that if God gave this prayer, through revelation, to Orson Hyde, and by it, laid the foundations for Zionism, I can perfectly well accept it.
Zionist Be Yourself You Do
QUOTE (dbackers @ 26-Sep 09, 8:27 AM) Yasser Arafat (may his soul rot in hell)
Wow dbackers I guess we all have a dark side you know what am I saying? But geez that comment is creepy. Arafat just like the Israelite side tried to do what they thought was better for their people. This aint a case of angels vs. Demons.
Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Zionist?
No, actually Arafat espoused the EXACT same political philosophies as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao. His whole purpose in life was murder and mayhem. He specifically ordered the murders of his own people if they so much as appeared to be trading with Israelis.
My understanding of the Plan of Salvation gives me hope that he will eventually come to an understanding of the pure evil that he espoused, but I truly doubt it.
Do You Yourself Be Zionist - Page 2
QUOTE (Nighthawk @ 2-Oct 09, 5:55 PM) My understanding of the Plan of Salvation gives me hope that he will eventually come to an understanding of the pure evil that he espoused, but I truly doubt it.
I guess it applies to both sides Nighthawk. I hope the Israelite side can also recognize the amount of young and innocent Palestinian infants they have murdered.
Do You Yourself Be Zionist Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2
I really don't know where you get your information. Yes, Arab children have died in the war. But Israeli soldiers do not purposely walk up to pregnant Arab women, calmly shoot the little children in the car, then shoot the mother, then shoot the unborn baby. "Palestinian" Arabs do. Israeli soldiers attempt to minimize collateral casualties, putting their own lives at risk. "Palestinian" Arabs hide in crowds of women and children while they shoot at Israeli soldiers, place nail bombs in nursery schools, blow up school buses, and shoot rockets into Israeli neighborhoods.
Israelis elect Arab Muslims to government positions, frequent Arab Muslim shops and businesses, and allow freedom of religion. "Palestinian" Arabs murder other Arabs who visit Israeli shops, who attempt to become Christians, or who are suspected of having Israeli friends. They store weapons in schools and hospitals and use ambulances to move around during skirmishes with Israelis because they know the Israelis won't shoot the ambulances.
These are all extremely well documented. By the way, the word, "Palestinian" referred to Jews, and ONLY Jews up until 1969. Before that, the Arabs were known as "Jordanians", which they still are.
If you really want to discuss the facts about this conflict, please read through the thread about the Israeli - Palestinian conflict.
Oh, yes. Mormons are allowed to practice their religion in Israel. If they attempt to practice their religion in Bethlehem, they face a potential death sentence. And, yes, those who commit atrocities will face the appropriate punishment. But I strongly believe that the Israelis have very little to worry about on that subject, compared to all of the surrounding Muslim states. It wasn't the Israelis who started the wars - it was the Arabs.
TOPIC: Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Zionist?