
[quote]Now I'm wondering how to bring this to the attention of the bishop. It's hard to talk about this because I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but it directly involves my family and we have been to the bishop to seek counseling for the one who has been abused. [/quote]
You may want to speak with your Stake President since the issue is very serious and explain him directly what is going on.
JB, that talk was awesome!!! thanks for sharing it here I think is great the Church is speaking about these issues that are affecting a lot to members and non-members of the Church.
JB I must say that I enjoyed your talk emensely... However I was wondering if you would mind clarifying marital rape... You see as far as I am aware you cannot rape your spouse. I submit the following:
[quote]Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the ahusband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.[/quote]
Let us look at Christian Sexuality in the context of the scriptures - (1 Corinthians 7:2-5)
{2} But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband. {3} The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife (ie. sex, helping atround the house etc.), and likewise the wife to her husband (ie. sex, helping atround the house etc.). {4} The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. Similarly, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. You own eachother as property.{5} Do not deprive each other of sex except by mutual consent and for a short time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer and fasting. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you to frolic because of a lack of self-control and carnal desire.
The Apostle then goes on to say that he wishes that everyone would be like him devoting their whole lives to the spreading of the Gospel rather than spending time with building families... However he does raise some very good points about sex in the marriage:
  1 - squash all the temptations.
  2 - Each man his own wife.
  3 - Each woman her own husband.
  4 - Wife's body does not belong to her alone.
  5 - Husband's body does not belong to him alone.
  6 - Each has legitamate sexual expectations.
  7 - Love includes meeting each other's sexual needs.
  8 - Satisfying the mate so they are not tempted to go outside of the marriage.
  9 - If you must stop having sex to focus more on prayer do so only by mutual consent.
 10 - Return to it soon to avoid temptations and frustrations.
In short I do not see how either the man or the woman has the "right" to deny their spouse. To do so could be construed as spousal abuse. (Of course if your mate is sick or exhausted you can wait )
I would like to close this argument with a quote and a rememberance:
[quote]Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the ahusband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the bhead of the cchurch: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;[/quote]
Remember:
  1 - Submit to eachother in all things
  2 - Wives Submit to your Husbands in every thing
  3 - Husbands Love your Wives as Jesus Himself would.
God Bless.
[quote]You see as far as I am aware you cannot rape your spouse[/quote]
How do you call then when a man demands from his wife sex even though she doesn't want to?. Put the example of a woman who is living in an abusive relationship, where her husband is constantly hitting her and treating her badly. Do you think she doesn't have the right of denying her own husband that?. How in the world this woman can think about being intimitate with somebody who is constantly abusing her? This is ONLY one example. There are plenty like that (I don't want to be so specific). Wanlorn, it happens everywhere. It happens in our Church. It does!. Pres. Howard W. Hunter wrote a great talk for the men in the Church called 'Being a Righteous Husband and Father'. Please read what he says here..." Keep yourselves above any domineering or unworthy behavior in the tender, intimate relationship between husband and wife. Because marriage is ordained of God, the intimate relationship between husbands and wives is good and honorable in the eyes of God. He has commanded that they be one flesh and that they multiply and replenish the earth (see Moses 2:28; 3:24). You are to love your wife as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it (see Ephesians 5:25-31).
Tenderness and respect—never selfishness—must be the guiding principals in the intimate relationship between husband and wife. Each partner must be considerate and sensitive to the others needs and desires. Any domineering, indecent,or uncontrolled behavior in the intimate relationship between husband and wife is condemned by the Lord".
Any dominnering, indecent or uncontrolled behavior!!! why do you think he mentioned that? because it happens!!!.
Read this one: President J. Reuben Clark taught:
"There is some belief, too much I fear, that sex desire is planted in us solely for the pleasures of full gratification; that the begetting of children is only an unfortunate incident. The direct opposite is the fact. Sex desire was planted in us in order to be sure that bodies would be begotten to house the spirits; the pleasures of gratification of the desire is an incident, not the primary purpose of the desire. . . . As to sex in marriage, the necessary treatise on that for Latter-day Saints can be written in two sentences: Remember the prime purpose of sex desire is to beget children. Sex gratification must be had at that hazard. You husbands: be kind and considerate of your wives. They are not your property; they are not mere conveniences; they are your partners for time and eternity." ](CR 1949, Oct:194-95).
I think these quotes speak by itself
Here is also a GREAT talk by Dr. B. Kent Harrison in BYU, I would recommend everybody to read the whole talk, it is kind of long but worthy it! talks about all kind of abuse with emphasis in the LDS family, including marital rape, child abuse and pyschological between others! great talk!
https://www.byubroadcasting.org/embracingho...nt_harrison.htm
[quote]How do you call then when a man demands from his wife sex even though she doesn't want to?.[/quote]
Does she really have a choice in the matter considering the words of the Apostle Paul? Wives submit to your husbands in all things, and, the Wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her Husband.
You gave example of a situation where the husband is physically violent - that would be a deeper root that needs to be cut than any possibility of raping a spouse. because "Any domineering, indecent,or uncontrolled behavior in the intimate relationship between husband and wife is condemned by the Lord"
To this quote
[quote]You husbands: be kind and considerate of your wives. They are not your property; they are not mere conveniences; they are your partners for time and eternity." ](CR 1949, Oct:194-95).[/quote]
I must make mention that the wife is the property of the husband. Now before you brand me a heretic or some other such, understand that t also teaches that the husband is the property of the wife.
[quote] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the ahusband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.[/quote]
See, people who are violent and otherwise abusive, are not just doing something against their spouses (male or female... it works both ways ) they rather are in violation of several of God's main principles "Love your neighbor as yourself" comes directly to mind and brings up the interesting notion that they would not do these things to themselves. Another thing that comes to mind is Whatsoever things are lovely, pure and of good report think on these things, and the fruits of the Spirit quote... people who bare evil fruits are not good trees. They are not being faithfull to their covenants with either the Lord or spouse and those who are not faithfull in little shall have what they do have removed. By that token the spouse may leave and is not bound in covenant unless the abuser is truly repentant and turns from their sins, then they are required to forgive their spouses.
Is an abusive spouse truly a spouse? No, they have broken their covenants and the abused will be justified in the leaving of the other spouse. I cannot believe that a loving Heavenly Father would condemn His faithful children from removing themselves from a situation that is harmful to their health, physicaly, spiritualy or emotionaly.
LDS_forever, you are however undeniably correct when
[quote]I think these quotes speak by itself [/quote]
With this all this in mind, how can one spouse rape the other? I contend that they cannot. The woman will submit to the man's physical needs for she is his help mate and commanded of the Lord to submit in all things. The man will submit to his her physical needs because he loves her first as Christ loves the church and second as his own flesh.
No, is not!. The quote I gave you was from Pres. President J. Reuben Clark. A General Authority of the Church. He said as I quoted before that women are NOT the property of their husbands. Are you arguing that point?. I ask this because your whole argument is based on that (About wives submitting to their husbands) and you are forgetting the point also that some men are not with the Spirit and they may demand from their wives certain things that ARE not in harmony with the Lord. Are you telling me that this wife must submitt to this husband in that case too?. I don't know if you have read about Pres. Hinckey views on spouse abuse, he also says that women are not the property of their husbands...and he is the Prophet
[quote]
No, is not!. The quote I gave you was from Pres. President J. Reuben Clark. A General Authority of the Church. He said as I quoted before that women are NOT the property of their husbands. Are you arguing that point?. I ask this because your whole argument is based on that (About wives submitting to their husbands) and you are forgetting the point also that some men are not with the Spirit and they may demand from their wives certain things that ARE not in harmony with the Lord. Are you telling me that this wife must submitt to this husband in that case too?. I don't know if you have read about Pres. Hinckey views on spouse abuse, he also says that women are not the property of their husbands...and he is the Prophet [/quote]
Does this have a "Thus Saith the Lord with it?
No it does not, therefore it can be taken as the opinion of a man. The scriptures are VERY clear that the Wife is the property of the Husband. The Scriptures are also clear that the Husband is the Property of the Wife. Are the Scriptures wrong? I have quoted a number that agree with my position, there are MANY more... Until we have cannonized scripture that says otherwise I will sustain the words of our cannon of scripture.
Also there is the possibility that both these great men are correct, just being misunderstood... Property is not something we normally destroy willfully, many women I have talked to wish they were treated as well as a man treats his Car... also property... Perhaps it is the attitude they speak against, the attitude that says she is mine I will do with her as I please while forgetting thet he is hers and can do likewise.
[quote]You see as far as I am aware you cannot rape your spouse.[/quote]
Who brought you to that 'awareness'? For one thing no man is knowledgeable unto himself. There must have been a school of thought that caused you to interpret Paul's scriptures in that 'tone'. All the Word is subject to interpretation by one in authority. It is by direct revelation we understand the meaning of what God's prophet is saying, this is called, 'The Spirit of Prophecy'. Now, LDS has given you some quotes from a modern day prophet which clearly state that a man cannot use 'force' in a relationship, especially in intamacy. Paul's statement is based on the righteousness of the husband, you will learn more of that when you get to the temple.
[quote] I must make mention that the wife is the property of the husband. [/quote]
Seems like you have issues with the Prophet's statement then. I think you are playing with the word 'submit'. Submission can be interrpreted to mean many things, in the Gospel it is a form of meekness, for an abuser it is a form of rule. In addition to this, a recent review of the Church Handbook of Instructions point to the fact that the Church is intolerable of abuse inside or outside of marriage, wether it be to spouce or children, wether it be sexual or not. I believe if you have a hard time understanding this then you may need to consult with your Bishop and/or Stake President as this an issue of a personal nature and which can affect future relations you may have with your spouse.