Related Information to LDS Perspective: War in Iraq

LDS Perspective: War in Iraq - Page 5

dbackers,

Thanks for your reply and opinion. I just want to add that yes sometimes war happens like it did with the Nephites, and yes innocent righteous people are caught up into it. It is a terrible thing. However I do not think your quote from Alma changes any of my thoughts. Simply because the war that you are referring to in Alma 44 is a war where unrighteous Nephites turned against there brothern. Again the sin of the Nephites. Furthermore it was not much before that Alma resigned from being a judge to teach the Nephites the gospel of Christ because of the great wickedness of the Nephites. It was such a crisis that Alma resigned from his judgeship and taught repentance to the Nephites. We see that there was a great pride among the Nephites at this time which led to war.

WW2 was a must for freedom. However we and the allies were not innocent. Where were we when the Jews were being put into concentration camps in Germany. Did you know that the U.S. turned away ships of fleeing Jews and sent them back to Germany? One has to wonder if we we and our allies showed compassion on Germany after WW1, instead of harsh sanctions that Hitler would have never came to power. Hitler came to power at a time that Germany was desperate from the punishing sanctions that we and the allies put upon them. Where was our morality in such actions? Such actions help contribute to another World war.

I am just saying that I tend to agree with Hugh Nibley when he said that all war is immoral, and no party is innocent. I do not think that communism was brought down by our righteousness. It was a host of factors, the internet, the changing world of globalization and the lack of controling information are major reasons why communism failed. I think our role in communisim's demise may have spritiually bankrupt us as a noation. We put people like Sadaam hussain and other brutal dictators in power who compromised human rights for our cold war.

As for the war on extremest Islam, its just the start. As I heard former U.S secretary of Defense Cohen say in a speech that the war of terrorism will spread past the boundaries of Islam and into other fundamental religions (including Christian) and become a war about economic haves and have nots. ( He said this back in 1999)

How much better would we be if we took all of the money was spend on war and build up the poor, help eradicate aids in Africa (the next terrorist breeding ground.) How about we use the war money to spread charity to end poverty. As Isaiah said, only when every one has his needs will we only have peace. If we did such things there would be very little desperate people to fall pray to such Islamic hate doctrine.
How well have we done so far in our war? Today the U.S. government said Al Quida is as strong as they were before 911. Perhaps we should follow the council of Isaiah and others. Well I am rambling on and getting off topic so I must stop.
But that is my opinion and I realize that others may disagree with it, but out of different opinions comes diversity and change.

Iraq War Perspective LDS

I kind of got off topic on this one.
The Church is politically neutral on the War but I believe that that the individual members of the twelve and the prophet have their own views on the War that they have chosen not to express outrightly.

From the church website.

I think that the church has followed this path on the Politics of this war especially because two very active people in the Church (One Apostle may support the war and the other may not).

Rather off topic, but... Elder Hugh B Brown was very liberal and Ezra Taft Benson was Very Conservative and they both had very differing views on War and Social Justice. I am sure that the Apostles today are not too different.

Edited: dbackers on 16th Jul, 2007 - 8:36pm

LDS Perspective: War in Iraq Studies Doctrine Mormon

As I understand it, when it comes to 'Gospel' perspectives on war...we need go little further than the Lord's sermon on the mount..."blessed are the peacemakers."

I'd say that as LDS, the ultimate proof of becoming a peacemaker is to follow peace at all costs, including to the point of turning the other cheek and laying down my life as the Anti-Nephi-Lehi's. Surely they could say they had a real case for all out war - a thousand and five slain...and yet they "buried" their weapons of war.

Though a non-american lds, I have always been impressed with the call to peace and use of biblical reference John F Kennedy quoted in his American University Commencement Address speech 10 June 1963... (https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/jfkamericanuniversityaddress.html)

Has anyone heard this type of language come from a recent US President?

Message Edited... Persephone: Please learn how to use the Quote Tags. See our Constructive Posting Policy.

Page 5 Iraq War Perspective LDS

As I believe this is a admirable goal as a Latter Day Saint and as an Individual to "turn the other Cheek" I do not believe it means to allow someone to kill or hurt your person. It definitely does not require you to stand by when someone is killing or hurting your family. If someone is raping a member of your family, do you follow peace at all cost and not stop them, even to the point of killing them.

I believe when Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" he was saying to be humble, submissive, gentle; easy to be entreated; full of patience and long-suffering; being temperate in all things. I think that turning the other cheek is first a state of mind.

I believe to "turn the other cheek" is not to seek unrighteous vengeance. Do not immediately strike back when someone strikes you, be patient,things may boil over. It does not prohibit one, however, to protect oneself, when someone is threatening his or her life.


On a more macro level, I do not believe the Lord expects a Nation or family group to allow itself to be attacked and threatened with destruction. The lord never said "Be a peacemaker, but do not defend your liberty, your lands, your wives, and your children, and your peace, and your rights to worship the almighty God as your wish" No, the scriptures teaches that, there are times to defend all these things even if it means to take another's life. You defend these things, because you are a peacemaker.

Jesus loved peace but I do not believe Jesus was and is a pacifist as it is used today.

Some Examples

When Jesus cleared the Temple he did so to exercise his authority, not by a non-violent protest, but with anger at the desecration of the Temple

Jesus knew that at that time he was to lay down his life in humble humility because he was to be the lamb, who bled for our sins. When he returns he will be the lion who will bring vengeance to the wicked.

Message Edited... Persephone: Please learn how to use the Quote Tags. See our Constructive Posting Policy.

Iraq War Perspective LDS

But what of the Anti-Nephi-Lehies example? They let the Lamanites hurt and kill them willingly (would this have included additional henious crimes including rape?). More than an admirable goal for them, they ultimately proved their discipleship to follow the Prince of Peace at all costs. In the ensuing period of wars, even the righteous Nephites found it hard to follow that example.

I'd say the Anti-Nephi-Lehies example was a celestial model of responding to terror. If we're not following an example of a celestial degree, what degree are we following? Have LDS covenanted to live any other degree?

According to Mormon, for us mere mortals it's not to seek righteous vengeance either.

As you've pointed out in your example where the Lord enacts old testament style vengeance, the Lord can repay injustice as he see's fit...but we're not the Lord. I'm reminded of a statement I heard once: "When I stand before God at the day of Judgement, it will not be justice I will seek, but mercy."

Guilty as charged. My grandfather and father were both in the army, I was close to joining, had my papers in and all, but realized that I detest the horrors of war too much. Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that I am more the preacher than warrior and would personally do better to help the world by waging peace.

LDS Perspective: War in Iraq

MaoriLDS

I admire your beliefs in never fighting evil with the sword, but I believe this is a personal opinion and does not agree with the established doctrines of the Church concerning War and Peace, nor is it practical.

The reason I say this is that the Anti-Nephi-Lehi case was a very unique situation. They had made the promise not to kill another because of their past sins as self proclaimed (though ignorant) murderers. It should not be extrapolated that the Celestial ideal is allowing the Innocent to be killed by those that are evil.

1. Anti-Nephi-Lehites did not forbid there children to fight to protect others even though they (the Parents) had personally taken the oath. The Armies of Heleman were protected by God, Even when they were killing others.
2. Christ admonished his apostles to take up the sword for protection.
3. The War in Heaven was a War. Those that "Died" spiritually were expelled because of their rebellion (was that not a form of death, being separated from there Father) and the righteous fought back valiantly.
5. Joseph Smith Created a Militia for protection
6. Brigham Young sent the Mormon Battalion to fight, (though they did not have to face battle)
7.

The entire article is found on LDS.org.
Righteousness is essential to peace, not necessarily pacifism.

In my mind.
1. If you have the ability to stop a murderer from killing and you do not, You are an accessory to that murder.
2. There will be no Peace until the Savior comes to vanquish evil.
3. Peace in our own life can only come by obedience to our temple covenants.

Edited: dbackers on 23rd Jul, 2007 - 10:03pm

LDS Perspective War Iraq - Page 5

Talking again of the thread topic...the opposite of the War in Iraq...is no war in Iraq"

Dirt washes off a lot easier than blood.

LDS Perspective War Iraq Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

The Church was quick to give some words about this in the beginning, but have largely gone silent now... has anyone ever heard any of the Brethren say anything since that one Conference a long time ago?