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Someone mentioned to me today that China was - Page 5 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 31st Dec, 2009 - 4:35am
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Events Before Second Coming - Page 5
Isn't it the case in these past few years that the Constitution of the United States IS "hanging by a thread"? I won't go into the political details in this thread, but the Patriot Act and many other issues are undermining and even bypassing the Constitution already. Whether it's the Elders of our church who somehow save it remains to be seen, but it is certainly a Sign of the Times.
IMO
Roz
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Post Date: 8th Oct, 2008 - 6:11am / Post ID: #
Coming Second Events
Name: Marion
Comments: Food for thought from other websites about the constitution.
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| In an October 1942 conference message, J. Reuben Clark, at that time a Mormon apostle, said, "You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance" (Conference Report, October 1942, p.58). Speaking in general conference in 1961, Ezra Taft Benson stated, "In connection with attack on the United States, the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time "this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction" (Conference Report, October 1961, p.70). In 1963 Benson again mentioned this prophecy in a conference message: "The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis. Will there be some of us who won't care about saving the Constitution, others who will be blinded by the craftiness of men, and some who will knowingly be working to destroy it? He that has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God's mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken" (Conference Report, April 1963, p.113). |
CONSTITUTION HANGING BY A THREAD STATEMENTS
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| The Historians Corner, BYU Studies, Vol. 19, No. 3, p. 390 An occasional theme among Latter-day Saints during times of political crisis has been the prediction attributed to Joseph Smith that the you.S. Constitution would one day hang by a thread and that the elders of the Church would at some critical juncture be instrumental in saving it. The source of this statement is thought to be an unpublished address titled, "A Few Items from a Discourse Delivered by Joseph Smith, July 19, 1840," filed in the Joseph Smith Papers in the LDS Church Archives. Written neatly on 8"x12" paper, the document is obviously a copy since it shows none of the usual characteristics of an original report. The paper appears to be of post-Nauvoo vintage, and the handwriting does not correspond to that of any of Joseph Smith's known clerks. Nor is there reference in the Prophet's History to his having delivered a discourse on 19 July 1840. Furthermore, at two points in the text, there appears to be a serious problem of continuity, suggesting copyist's errors or some other flaw in the manuscript. Consequently, in the absence of an original text, and without information about its origin and authorship, the reliability of this document has remained somewhat tenuous. CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: "I believe he said something like this-that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: "If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church." I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it." Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don't save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government. Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 326 Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 1, CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would "hang by a thread" and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, "When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men" (JD 21:8). To defend the principles of the Constitution under circumstances where the "iniquity," or moral decay, of the people has torn it to shreds might well require wisdom at least equal to that of the men raised up to found it. In particular, it would require great insight into the relationship between freedom and virtue in a political embodiment of moral agency. Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40 My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him. Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1923, p. 62 Brethren and sisters, let me say in closing that we have it of record, that the prophet Joseph Smith said the time will come when, through secret organizations taking the law into their own hands, not being governed by law or by due process of law, but becoming a law unto themselves, when, by those disintegrating activities, the Constitution of the United States would be so torn and rent asunder, and life and property and peace and security would be held of so little value, that the Constitution would, as it were, hang by a thread. But he never said, so far as I have heard, that that thread would be cut. I believe, with Elder Richards, that this Constitution will be preserved, but it will be preserved very largely in consequence of what the Lord has revealed and what this people, through listening to the Lord and being obedient, will help to bring about, to stabilize and give permanency and effect to the Constitution itself. That also is our mission. That also is what we are here for. I glory in it. I praise god with all my heart and soul that I am a member of it. Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108 The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America. Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127 I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said-and I believe he did say it-that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is-and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today-where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed. J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58 You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance. Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85 It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said-even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land-"The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner." Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents-the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18 It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings. THE CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD How long will it be before the words of the Prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. -Brigham Young, JD 12:204, April 8, 1868, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230 When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. -Brigham Young, JD 2:182, February 18, 1855, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230 When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program and as long as we do what is right and fear God He will help us and stand by us under all circumstances. -John Taylor, JD 21:8, August 31, 1879 |
Source 1: emp.byui.edu/venemag/CONSTITUTIONHANGINGBYATHREAD.DOC
Post Date: 26th Oct, 2008 - 9:31pm / Post ID: #
Events Before Second Coming Studies Doctrine Mormon
Name: Rob
Comments: Many things have been reveled concerning a great war that initiates the beginning of the end of the wicked, followed by a short period of relative peace, then culminates in the efforts of the world to finally eliminate the Jews at the Battle of Armageddon. Let me present a view of this sequence not only from a spiritual perspective, but also from a practical/tactical view point. First the Tactical: Being a retired U.S. Marine, having served from the time of Vietnam through Desert Storm, I've been able to develop a unique perspective of these coming events. I,like you, am very interested in knowing as much as I can concerning events that will effect our lives in such a profound way...At the opening of the last 7 years of this age we we are first confronted with a war lasting only 13 months yet killing 1/3 of the worlds population.
The scriptures are replete with images that certainly describe this as Nuclear war. As a Marine I can tell you there is no other way of inflicting that many casualties without the use of nuclear weapons. There isn't enough manpower or equipment in our combined conventional arsenals to accomplish that objective in such a short period of time. The main point in question as to who is the primary target of this war, is given to us by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Joseph Smith, and many others if you are able to decipher Hebrew literature. The aggressor also is very easily identified. Rather than getting into a volume of explanation by teaching you the method where-by these things are made apparent, several good LDS authors have done a good job of reveling this method. Read all the works of Avraham Gileadi. They have been mentioned on various threads throughout this site. If you are truly willing to believe the Lord was not kidding when he said these things would unfold before our eyes as these events where about to take place, then you are left without excuse because they have been reveled...Sorry, I digress.
As you study Gileadis' interpretation of Isaiah it be comes very apparent who these participants are...The United States being the primary strategic target with Russia being the initiator. If you haven't followed the life of Vladamir Putin, you may want to google a few sites listed under his name. With the primary participants of this war identified, the question now becomes...When dose this happen? Many signs and indicators have been given to help us know this war looms on the horizon. Isaiah says this will occur during a time of apostasy. Well it's quite apparent the world is certainly in a state of apostasy that includes all the conditions mentioned, would exist during that period. But who is Isaiah more specifically speaking too? A telestial world without celestial law or is he speaking of the apostasy that would exist within the Lords Church? Remember, in scripture the Lord is always addressing his Saints. Not a world who gives not a hoot for Christ and his Gospel. The grand deceptive principle that lies at the root of apostasy is pride. Unfortunately those who possess it, are unable to see or accept it. The fact of this condition existing in the church today has been given to us in scripture to warn us...Read the directions prayerfully, carefully,and thoroughly...They are as plain as Nephi said they were. Joseph Smith not only made a prophecy concerning this condition and the need to confront and correct it (D&C 85,103 and others), he also stated a few specific preconditions leading to this war. One of those conditions sighted, was the collapse of our economy. It doesn't require a degree in economics to realize where our nation and the world are headed under this current economic system that is begging for world change. Not a good one I would say.
Now, from the perspective of prophecy, I would venture to say we have recently entered that seven year final window with war just over the horizon. From a military perspective, this precondition to war mentioned by Joseph Smith along with the confused and divided state of our current political situation, may give rise to behind the scenes Rumor of war, given our ever increasing state of instability and vulnerability. We are now a prime target for an attempt at Soviet world dominance. The signs of entering the last seven years of this worlds temporal existence are ominous and present. If you are surprised at its closeness, did not the Lord say these events would come upon us like a thief in the night? (unexpectedly) You have to ask yourself why we haven't been warned of these things by our current leaders, when all of the Prophets of the past, have...? Am I advocating rebellion or quitting the Church? No. The Lord is at the helm of his ship awaiting the correct moment of intervention via section 85 of the Doctrine & Covenants. Notification of an abrupt change of venue will occur before the destruction comes upon us.
A Great division will occur among us first that will precipitate the Lord removing his hand of protection from this Nation. The greater question is not when this war will occur but rather who among us will be spared? There will be an ominously eternal choice we must soon make that will determine our eternal as well as our temporal destiny. The specifics underlying the cause of this great separation among us are also very plainly embedded within the scriptures...but thats another subject...Be wise in that you take advantage of the spirit in your lives and learn all you can as you have been commanded by the Lord. Let no man stand between you, the Lord and that objective. If you do, you are relying on the arm of flesh.
Your understanding, though not perfect, will eventually lead to an understanding of perfection. Think out of the box while remaining within the confines of known Doctrine (not opinion). Your eyes will be opened. If you don't know the Doctrines of the Lord and his Kingdom, you had better stop guessing and start learning. It, along with your ability to recognize the voice of the Lord,will be your only hope of making the right choice. It's not likely that most of us will have come anywhere close to understanding all Doctrine prior to these great events,but keep trying. It will be to your advantage. Most importantly, be Christ like in your everyday behavior and demeanor. Charity covers a multitude of sins and grants us the Lords Spirit to be our guide. I love you for your Love of the Lord and His Gospel. Keep up the good work you citizens of Philadelphia.
Post Date: 18th Nov, 2008 - 7:12pm / Post ID: #
Page 5 Coming Second Events
I have blogged about this before. How about this one.
Hinckley gave a talk called boys to men in the fall of 1998 about The pharaoh's dream (7 good years and 7 bad)
In the fall of 2005 he gave a similar talk about the dream (7 years later). That puts us in the fall of 2012. The Mayan calender also talks about this date as being important. The templar calendar says a similar date.
The Planets are supposed to have a strange alinement that may cause drastic earth changes and may block us of from the center of the universe (a non religious scientific theory). this may be the time that we are blocked off from Kolob (the center of the universe probably). This could be the time that we are blocked off from God for the half hour, or 21 years.
If you add 21 years to 2012 you get 2033. This is the 2000th anniversary of the crucifixion/atonement. At which point he may return.
There are also a lot of similarities between this planet x (mentioned by nighthawk) and a connection to enoch.
I think the universe is a giant clock that is hard to read. Look to the heavens for answers.
Just more or less some scrambled thoughts.
Post Date: 19th Nov, 2008 - 1:07pm / Post ID: #
Coming Second Events
I have read a lot of theories on this thread regarding the events before the Second Coming of the Lord. I thought maybe we should get back on the doctrine, and our best source in my opinion, is the scriptures.
Doctrine and Covenants Section 88 (pretty much the entire section) notes the many of events to take place, just preceding the coming of the Savior.
Quasar
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This could be the time that we are blocked off from God for the half hour, or 21 years. If you add 21 years to 2012 you get 2033. This is the 2000th anniversary of the crucifixion/atonement. At which point he may return. |
Doctrine and Covenants Section 88 is where this silence in heaven for a half hour is mentioned (check out verse 95). I wanted to include verses 87-96 because they describe some of the events and signs that the earth will give us, physical clues I guess you could call them. Everyone should read all of Section 88 though as it is excellent on the Second Coming Events.
Doctrine and Covenants Section 88:87-96
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| 87 For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree. Â 88 And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people. Â 89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand. Â 90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds. Â 91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men's hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people. Â 92 And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Â 93 And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together. Â 94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood-she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea-behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it. Â 95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled; Â 96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him. |
I found the following scriptures comforting as it instructs us on how to prepare ourselves for the Second Coming of the Savior.
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117 Therefore, verily I say unto you, my friends, call your solemn assembly, as I have commanded you. Â 118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith. Â 119 Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God; Â 120 That your incomings may be in the name of the Lord; that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord; that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High. Â 121 Therefore, cease from all your light speeches, from all laughter, from all your lustful desires, from all your pride and light-mindedness, and from all your wicked doings. Â 122 Appoint among yourselves a teacher, and let not all be spokesmen at once; but let one speak at a time and let all listen unto his sayings, that when all have spoken that all may be edified of all, and that every man may have an equal privilege. Â 123 See that ye love one another; cease to be covetous; learn to impart one to another as the gospel requires. Â 124 Cease to be idle; cease to be unclean; cease to find fault one with another; cease to sleep longer than is needful; retire to thy bed early, that ye may not be weary; arise early, that your bodies and your minds may be invigorated. Â 125 And above all things, clothe yourselves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace. Â 126 Pray always, that ye may not faint, until I come. Behold, and lo, I will come quickly, and receive you unto myself. Amen. |
 Message Edited...Persephone: Please look at how we use the Quote Tags here. When you do not use these tags source material that is not your own may appear to be yours when it is not. See our Constructive Posting Policy. |
Post Date: 31st Dec, 2009 - 12:44am / Post ID: #
Events Second Coming - Page 5
Much of this thread has been focused on the wars and calamities that will immediately precede the public appearance of the Savior. I would like to mention some insights on prophecies regarding the missionary work prior to the Millennium. There are several references in the scriptures and addresses by church leadership confirming that the restored gospel must be preached in every nation, to every people, in every language.
A few months ago I was pleased to receive an invitation to a presentation at my place of employment by LDS Philanthropies, an official arm of the church that assumes oversight of the Church Education System, as well as charitable causes in which the church is involved. The elder giving the presentation made mention that growth in church membership is occurring at astounding levels in places where the church is not legally allowed to proselyte. Many young people training for government positions in China and other Asian nations are sent to BYU-Hawaii to receive their degrees. As one would suppose, many of those have become members of the church while in Hawaii and return home to find numerous organized branches.
This reminded me that prophecies are often fulfilled in ways other than their popular interpretations.
Events Second Coming Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5
Someone mentioned to me today that China was opening up to missionary activity, and that mission homes in the USA would be downsized to focus on Asian countries, but I can't confirm that. It would be a huge step in the direction of "to every nation" etc.
TOPIC: Events Before Second Coming