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Baptism - Page 2

Certain qualifying factors... This may not be what you mean, but what I'm hearing you say is that you have to do something to deserve salvation. Wasn't the whole point of Jesus dying to save us unqualified sinners from Hell?

Baptism

Jesus dying on the Christ gave us sinners a chance to be saved, but that doesn't mean we are automatically saved. We still need to do certain things while on this Earth, to accept the salvation that was afforded us by Jesus Christ, and I believe the quote you questioned is stating that Baptism is one of those things we must do as a sign of that acceptance.

Baptism Revealed Bible The

Well, that is a good question. Please give the verses that say that we have to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in order to be saved. You even said in an earlier post that we have to do SOMETHING....

You said that a person must make a decision, and let Jesus into their heart. That means that there is a qualifying factor in the salvation. I believe, based upon many, many scriptures, that baptism is one of the qualifying factors. You can't earn your way into salvation, but you do have to do some things to qualify.

According to my beliefs, there are 4 basic requirements or qualifying factors:
1. Faith in Jesus Christ. That is, faith (not just belief) that He is the Lord and Savior, that He has the ability, the capacity, and the authority to save us from death and hell, and that His Atonement opened the way.

2. Repentance. God frees us from our sins, not in our sins. True repentance only comes about through the intervention of the Savior as He helps us to change. Again, repentance is NOT a work that earns us anything. It is ONLY a change in our lives from moving in the wrong direction towards the goal that God has set for us.

3. Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins. Baptism is NOT just "icing on the cake." It is the ordinance that God established to wash away and remit our sins.

4. The Gift of the Holy Ghost. This is an ordinance, after which we must earnestly seek out the fulness of the gift.

These 4 simple things, if followed prayerfully, humbly, and with great faith, make us ready to receive the fulness of His blessings. They are, again, qualifying factors, proof that we are willing to do what is necessary to please Him, to change our lives and live according to His will.

Page 2 Baptism

I believe that salvation is a gift. And just like a gift from, say, your parents, you don't have to "qualify" for the gift. They give it simply because they love you. You can choose to accept the gift, just like you choose to accept God's gift of free salvation.

Of course, I believe that you should be baptized because God commanded it. However, if you don't it is just like violating one of God's other commandments (ex. stealing, lying, etc.). You won't lose your salvation, but you will make God angry (and who wants that?)

Baptism

Shyster, have you read carefully the replies Malexander and Nighthawk gave you? You do not refute some very important points they made that contradict what you was saying in the beginning. Anyhow..

I notice that a lot of what you say is more your opinion than scriptural, could you tell me a passage in the Bible where implies that if you are not baptised you can still earn salvation and you will make only God "angry"?

Baptism

I'm sorry Shyster, but I can't understand your way of thinking on your last point, Not being Baptized isn't just something you can ignore, and only think that it is 'like breaking any of the commandments'

I also can't understand why you can attend one Baptist church and think like this, and I can attend another one elsewhere in the world where the priority of Baptism is completely different.

I do not intend to upset or criticize you, obviously if this is your own personal understanding, you are entitled to your own opinion, as are we all! I was just wondering...

My Baptist church views the Baptism by full immersion as imperative, and non negotiable. Obviously the timing of it has to be right, and you need a full understanding of why you are getting Baptized,but you would certainly be expected to be Baptized at some point! And also receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, is all part of these acts of faith.

It is commanded of us all in the Bible.

Baptism - Page 2

Actually, you DO have to qualify for a gift from your parents. You have to be their child. They aren't giving the gift to someone that they don't know. If they do, then that someone else qualifies under some other requirements.

Another way that I look at baptism is that the ordinance places me into the "family" of Jesus Christ, putting me into the line of inheritance. That is how it qualifies me for those particular blessings.

I know that many Christians today believe that simply declaring faith in Jesus Christ is sufficient to qualify for the blessings. However, I haven't been shown any unambiguous verses in the Bible to support that view, that aren't clearly in contradiction to many other verses.

Baptism The Bible Revealed - Page 2

OK, here we go...

This is very commonly heard around many traditional Baptist churches such as the one I current. KJV :

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

also...

Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


On the other note, the Bible consists of many more passages which refer to eternal life.

Lu 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Lu 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Lu 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Lu 18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Lu 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

This being said, the closest verse that I have read and remembered to this topic is:

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There this says the gift of the Holy Ghost, but not of salvation. Yet with the gift of salvation you are filled with the spirit of The Holy Ghost. This leave for much debate I am afraid.

Now for my spill..

While I agree with the statement that Shyster makes I have to raise one major point that I have spent much time in discussions with fellow church members regarding salvation.

While the gift of eternal life is a gift received through personal faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior, if you truly invite him into your heart and soul then on a personal level you should be at a point to do everything as Christ-like as possible. As none are perfect except my God: Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

In my personal experience with myself as well as those that I have witnessed I have two major conclusions. If in prayer you truly ask Jesus into your heart rather then just into your head as I have known people to do the following up with a public declaration of your faith in baptism is the only first step as you are born into your new life in Christ. That is after all what baptism represents, *repention of sins and the rising into your new life* Having said that, just because someone chooses not to be baptized does not in my belief mean that he has not been saved nor does someone that follows in baptism declare that they are. The act of faith is within ones heart, and faith is my road to salvation.