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Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2: Rivers Run Red - Page 55

Out of Character: I added to Theaton's home base so you can see what type of house he would have built on his property. Like stated before he will claim the whole hex as his property. His plans are to claim even more as time goes on.

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I nod, my face a mask showing no emotion. After a moment I state, "I know not what many believe will occur here, but let us set any rumors to rest. There was a minor disagreement while we were afield among us barons as to what and where our laws cover. Because it regards our laws, I had planned to discuss it during the Edict Phase of our meeting. Having completed our Upkeep, we are now able to move on to Edicts."

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"First up for discussion is the issue of where our laws apply. I believe they should apply to all lands we have intentions to claim. No one else is moving to claim and civilize them, so we should. Having lawless lands surrounding our home is unacceptable."

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"Speaking of our laws and how they should apply to the lands surrounding our home brings me to the next topic - specifically, to whom do our laws apply? Who is protected by our rule of law against harming others physically or fiscally? I care not what someone's race, color, nor creed entail. If they are intelligent and willing to obey our laws, we should be willing to accept them and protect them. This has proven fruitful in our interactions with the fey and Sootscale clan of kobolds. Furthermore, we even offered acceptance of the worshippers of Gyronna and Hanspur not two months ago - as long as they obeyed our laws and harmed no one physically or fiscally."

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"I believe we also need additional clarification on the rules of duels. We must establish a legal way for settling grievances. A duel is between two parties and is meant to be honorable. As such, when two people agree to a duel, any that interfere should be held as breaking the peace. Not only have they meddled in a legal matter - but they have sullied the honor of those that agreed to a fair and honorable settling of their differences." Looking upon Akiros and then Jesla, a thought comes to me. "I am in favor of placing Akiros in charge of overseeing duels and ensuring combatants operate following the agreed upon terms. In order for a duel to occur, each party must agree to it. The terms will then be decided upon mutually. I would also task Jesla, the Royal Enforcer, with bearing witness to said duels with Akiros, to ensure the two combatants follow the rules and no outside parties interfere."

Out of Character: You don't think they could use the verbal duel to determine which of them would best fill the role of Grand Diplomat?

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2: Rivers Run Red Archive Pathfinder / D&D

Jesla listens to Archival and feels irritation growing. It is visible on her face but she tries to appear calm before speaking. " My lord, if I may. I do not feel that our laws should apply outside of this kingdom. Land that we do not control is not ours to deal with yet. This could obligate us to protect people there when we are but a fledgling kingdom and do not have the resources to do so. "

She pauses for a moment. " I also feel that it is immoral to say that our laws apply there. That would mean that residents thereof could be breaking our law without even being aware of it. Residents would have no idea about us or our laws and would break them unintentionally possibly. That is not proper. How would you feel if you lived in the wilderness of an unclaimed region for years. One day some riders came from a nearby kingdom and saw something that you were doing was illegal according to their laws and punished you for it. Is that ethical in anyway? I say it is not. People must be aware of the laws they are expected to follow. "

Jesla looks around the room to see the effect of her words. " Also, I do not feel that even within our realms that our laws should apply to things that are not living. They are evil by nature and are dead. Laws apply to the living not the dead. It isn't murder to kill that which is already dead. "

She pauses one last time. " I will be glad to ensure that the rules for duels be followed. That is fair enough. " She smiles and takes a seat.
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Edited: Kyrroeth on 2nd Mar, 2017 - 4:44pm

Page 55 Red Run Rivers Kingmaker Pathfinder Icons

Theaton stands up and goes to the center of the gathering. He turns and addresses the group. “I will dispense with titles and formalities as we all know who I am and my titles. Same as with Archival and Mykeal. First off let me say that the others of you who are here that some of what I am about to say may shock you.
My actions that took place were based on two things. First of all it was an undead creature which to me and my beliefs is an abomination to life itself and to nature. Those of you that know me know I am a person in tune and for nature. I am a protector of nature and the beauty it offers. I will make no qualms about that fact and I dislike the undead. To me personally I feel that they should be sent back to the grave no matter what. I do not now and I will not in the future view them as a living soul. They have no soul so therefore they are inhuman and a monster and abomination that needs to be put down.
Second of all it threatened us. I feel that any creature living or dead that threatens evil upon me or my companions should not live long enough to carry out those threats. I did not hold back and I would refuse to hold back again to anything that threatens us. I feel that nothing ever good comes from threats. To start off any type of negotiations with any civilized beast, person or other with a threat is not going to help you be viewed favorably.
Between these two things the undead thing that called itself Davik basically sentenced itself to death once again. As the Marshal it is my job to make sure that no threats to our kingdom goes unpunished. While this thing was not part of or on our soil I felt that it could be an issue and possible threat to us in the future. The fact that it carried out its threats shows just what an evil thing it was. I was quite surprised that my friends would willingly give a sacrifice to appease an evil undead thing. Giving up another dead body to a undead thing is a fact in itself that I cannot comprehend and something that I hope in the future does not come back and bite us for giving into such threats and demands.
For now it is calm and no longer a threat. How long that will last I do not know but I will have my spies watching the area and they will inform me of anything that changes. If something comes back stronger and more harmful it may need a much bigger sacrifice to appease it again. How will we be any better if we keep sacrificing things to a evil thing. It should have been destroyed once and for all without giving into its demands for if it does come back woe be that day.

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Kresnik speaks up, "Representatives of Kamelarn need to have the authority to interfere with violent crimes and the like, simply in order to keep the region safe. But more than that… If a being doesn't enjoy the benefits and protections that comes with living on lands we actually control, I agree with Jesla, it isn't right to expect them to comply with those rest of our laws so long as they're living peacefully."

"That said, I would advocate making it policy to grant sanctuary or aid to those who request it in lands we hope to claim. Pending of course it being a worthy cause, and having the resources to do so. It can only help our expansion to have people already living there indebted to us."

The gnome pauses, trying to collect his thoughts, before speaking carefully, "As to the question of what kind of creatures can be protected, any intelligent soul is capable of choosing good or evil, regardless of their form. Most undead lack a soul, and others such as liches choose to become undead by acts that involve extreme evil in and of itself. I submit that such should indeed be destroyed as we are capable of it, as they are either mindless and extremely dangerous creatures, or already guilty by default of capital crimes."

"But there are two other categories I am aware of, the Deathless, who are animated by the same energies found in natural life, and finally souls trapped in undeath by a curse. The latter register as evil to a paladin's senses because of the nature of the magic binding them, but they are not necessarily evil in actions or thought. While I do suggest extreme caution in dealing with such individuals, their true nature must be determined by judging their actions, as with any other thinking being."

"At least from the outset, the cursed are often innocent victims, and violent actions do not necessarily free them from their torment. I advocate ending their existence as well, but by lifting the curse and allowing them to pass on. This often requires working with them to understand the conditions required to end the curse, usually some form of task."

"In the case of Davik, I condemn the threats he made, as well as the mental influence he exerted on Theaton and Jesla. But I also submit that Davik's soul was most likely bound to this plane until he could confirm his revenge was complete. Unable to leave the crossing, the only way to proceed would be to coerce others into helping, or hope that the Stag Lord returned so he could end the man's life himself. Since one of those options was not possible, threats would then be his only recourse. Recall that he went to extreme measures to avoid a violent confrontation with us, even after he was attacked. It should also be noted that the only individuals who were harmed by him were also those that attacked him."

"If Davik's nature is as I suspect, he isn't simply appeased, he is finally dead. The curse lifted, and his soul sent to judgement as it should have been a long time ago. If I am wrong, and he does return as Theaton believes he will, then I would not advocate acceding to any other demands, and will assist to the best of my ability to end his existence on this plane by some other means, but I must warn you in advance that force of arms may be no more effective in that than it was in our first encounter."

"In regards to duels, I can agree to those terms for arbitrating such, but I would greatly prefer for there to be another means of resolving disputes. In any disagreement, a duel only determines who fought better that particular day, not who was right. Further, many of our citizens will not be capable of fighting at all, but still have legitimate grievances with one another."

Edited: daishain on 2nd Mar, 2017 - 4:41pm

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2: Rivers Run Red

Jesla listens to Kresnik nodding in points. "I agree with your idea of offering sanctuary or aid to those out there. That makes sense and is a reasonable compromise. I also agree with you about stopping violent acts out there. I'm referring more to other laws regarding less serious crimes. We should not enforce those out there. "

The barbarian pauses for a moment. " Lets address again who can be protected. Moving away from the undead for a moment. Are we to talk with trolls or orcs and give them a chance at peace? They fit the description you gave for liches, mindless and extremely dangerous evil creatures. You said we should destroy them. Why are trolls any different? " She looks to Kreskin for his answer.

Edited: Kyrroeth on 2nd Mar, 2017 - 5:00pm

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2 Rivers Run Red - Page 55

"I did not call liches mindless. I called them guilty of great evil. The actions required to become a lich in the first place are unspeakable."

"Trolls are not mindless either, but being born a troll cannot be considered a crime as there's no choice involved. I do not know of any trolls that are not evil in thought or deed, but I expect some exist. I don't advocate letting down one's guard, but if a peace already exists… "

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2 Rivers Run Red D&D / Pathfinder Archive - Page 55

Jesla looks at Kreskin incredously. " Whether it is their choice or not Trolls are evil. You do not believe that creatures cannot be born with an evil nature? Trolls are born evil. I have never seen that wasn't evil. You have not seen one. I dare say no one in this room or in this entire kingdom has. Might as well take in the whole world with this. That's because they are all evil. In the lands I came from there were trolls. In the lands I have travelled through there are trolls. They all have something in common. They eat children and adults if they can. " She pauses then frowns. " Would you live in a remote area with a family with trolls close by. Trolls that said they would obey the law. What if they change their mind? How would we ever even know here. There is no way to enforce that. That would stifle growth because no family is going to put their children at risk trusting in the imaginary goodness of these mythical nice trolls. No one would take that chance. No one. Ignore my words at your own peril." Jesla sits back down.