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3.5 D&D You As Character RPG Questions & Discussions - Page 46

So far as I am aware, Thomas is correct. Unless the divine bard variant specifies he is learning and casting from a different list, he is learning and casting from the same list he would be as a normal bard. The spells are just being treated as divine spells rather than arcane, which means the rules are a little different.

There is precedent for this. Some spells have both arcane and divine variants. Protection from Evil is an obvious example, a scroll of PfE made by a wizard cannot be used by a Cleric without a UMD check, and the reverse is true as well. In spite of them being the exact same thing in name and function, they are not treated as the same spell. This means that there are exactly zero divine spells on the bard list by default, your ruling would give him no spells to pick from.

In addition, there are cleric options that let them pick spells off of the wizard list and treat them as divine. In reverse, the arcane disciple feat lets an arcane caster pick a Cleric domain and cast all of the spells associated with that domain as arcane spells.

P.S. Waiting on anything in particular for the game? I believe we're just resuming the patrol then reporting back to the settlement if nothing else crops up.

Edited: daishain on 28th Aug, 2017 - 10:01pm

Discussions and Questions RPG Character You Dragons and Dungeons

The Storyteller says...

Thank you Daishain, I was fairly certain I wasn't misunderstanding how the rules for spellcasting for the Divine Bard was being read. Things just were not matching up, so I am glad to have someone back me up.

3.5 D&D You As Character RPG Questions & Discussions Archive Pathfinder / D&D

I was wanting to clarify this all up before moving on. I understand that some spells have a Divine and a arcane element. I am saying he can not use any spell on the bard spell list that are strictly arcane in nature. In the unearthed arcana is adds spells to the divine bards spell list. They are all divine in nature. It even says they get their spells from the divine not arcane. I have no issues with spells that go both ways as long as they are divine. He will not get spells like magic missile or fireball as they are strictly arcane.

Page 46 Discussions and Questions RPG Character You Dragons and Dungeons

You're talking about culling somewhere around 2/3s of his spell list, I think it might be as high as 3/4s. The handful of spells added don't come anywhere close to compensating for that loss, even if the also divine spells on the bard list were not typically the weakest of the bunch.

If you're going to go in that direction, at least let him pick spells off of the full list of a divine casting class rather than forcing him to use a crippled spell list. I should note that even with that consideration he's going to be disadvantaged. There's a reason divine casters have access to their entire lists rather than a few spells known.

Thomas? I strongly recommend sticking with standard bard the way this is going. We can get some divine flavor in there via feats a lot less painfully.

I'm going to butt out of this unless asked from here on, its not my call on either end. Just had to say something.

Edited: daishain on 29th Aug, 2017 - 3:06am

Discussions and Questions RPG Character You Dragons and Dungeons

The Storyteller says...

Hmm, I apologize but I'm going to have to agree with Daishain.

You're taking this a bit too far, and I'm not comfortable playing the Divine Bard if you're going to push for this sort of thing. It goes against the RAW and RAI, completely crippling me when it comes to what magic I can use. All in all, I think it's very unfair.

If we were to go with things the way you have it presented I pretty much wouldn't be able to use the Bard spell list at all since the majority of the spells do not have a Divine equivalent.

At this point I'll just go with a regular bard. It's not what I want, but you're really not going to let me create the character I want.

I'll update my character sheet to be regular bard.

Edited: Thomaslee on 29th Aug, 2017 - 3:43am

3.5 D&D You As Character RPG Questions & Discussions

Are we ready to move on with the game at this point? I've kept out of this since I see it as between the Dungeon Master and a player but it's now been a while since we have posted anything in this game. Are we ready to continue now?

3.5 D&D You Character RPG Questions & Discussions - Page 46

I have done some research and I have talked to other Dungeon Masters. This is not against RAW or RAI but that is fine. What I did not like about the arcane spells becoming divine you no longer have the spell failure chance with armor. I have listened to good arguements and both sides and I think like before the Unearthed Arcana did not go into this variant class well enough. The fact that they clearly stated Divine instead of arcane spells is what made me not want arcane spells in a divine bard. I know that kills the spell list but I was going to have his deity give him access to some clerical spells. As a way to compensate for the lack of spells usable in the arcane class. This si all I am going to say about this now. Either go as a regular bard or a a divine bard. But make the decision now and be done with it.

I will continue the game in a bit.

3.5 D&D You Character RPG Questions & Discussions D&D / Pathfinder Archive - Page 46

The Storyteller says...

I've made my decision, I am going to play as a regular Bard. You have killed any desire for me to be a Divine Bard by how you are ruling things and pretty much making it so I can't use the Bard spell list despite the way it is written indicating that I am supposed to draw spells from Bard spell list.

It is an unequal trade of abilities, and I don't want to jump through your hoops just to play a Divine Bard. As such, I will play a regular Bard and update my character sheet when I get back from work.

I don't agree with your ruling, it makes no sense nor is it fair.

Edited: Thomaslee on 29th Aug, 2017 - 11:38pm