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QUOTE (SCMormon)I meant that they made nasty - Page 3 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 8th Sep, 2010 - 9:41pm

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Autistic Mormons Autism - Aspergers - Special Needs - High Functioning - Low Functioning - Autism In Mormonism - Special needs Members that face challenges in the world as Members of the Church. Are Church leaders and teachers sensitive to the issues surrounding those who may need their support with understanding the special needs of those around them? Controversial Mormon Issue.
11th Jul, 2010 - 11:33pm / Post ID: #

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Someone recently sent me this by Email and although it is a nice gesture I believe it is one of those not Doctrine based stories circulating the net. It is about a child with Downs Syndrome but hints at any special needs child:

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A mother is attending the patriarchal blessing of her 16 yr old son with Downs Syndrom. She had always thought her son was her punishment for her sinful life prior to his birth. It was explained during her sons blessing, that this was not the case. That in fact we now have more special needs children coming to earth, than ever before, and that they were reserved to come forth in the latter days. And the reason they were coming to the earth, with these varying special needs & disabilities, is that it is a protection for them, against Satan and his angels. It was explained that this protection was needed, because these special spirits were the ones that escorted "Satan and 1/3 of the host of Heaven from the spirit world. Thought this might help you in your daily struggle raising your children.



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Post Date: 3rd Sep, 2010 - 9:53pm / Post ID: #

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I had that story growing up so it is probably not true, but a rumor spread over time. However, it is a nice thought and may bring comfort and hope to many. There is a statement by Elder Alvin Dyer, former counselor in First Presidency in which he talks about the more noble spirits of the pre-existence, but it pertains to children that die in their infancy. Maybe the rumor was long ago stemmed from this quote.

Alvin Dyer, "Who Am I?" pg. 482-483

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Children who die as to natural death in their infancy, or before the age of accountability, are redeemed in the Lord.  These are of the more noble spirits of the pre-existence, and because of their purity, will have the exceptional joy of having their tabernacles of flesh and bone mature and grow to the full stature of their spirit bodies under more favorable conditions of existence during the millenium.


LDS_Forever
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My question in this case is, how come he was never baptized?

I did find the following scripture interesting and applicable.
Moroni 8:22
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For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have dno  law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing-
Such persons may be sealed to their parents, but no other ordinance is necessary.

ClCliifford. Young, an apostle in the 1950's stated in April 1954 conference

History of the Church Volume II, Page 381.

Children and adults in some mental capacities are considered without the law. The gospel teachings give us divine law, and a commandment to obey or forfeit eternal blessings. This is based on us being able to understand these laws and intellligently exercising our free will as to whether or not we will conform to those laws. When we understand, we are accountable at the age of 8. Those that cannot understand due to not developing mentally are not accountable.
Bruce R. McConkie states this beautifully in Mormon Doctrine.
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Obviously if children or adults do not develop mentally to the point where they know right from wrong and have the normal intellect of an accountable person, they never arrive at the years they may live.  Such persons, though they may be adults, are without the law, cannot repent, are under no condemnation.

History of Church II, Page 381
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Such children are pure before the Lord, and have no need for baptism no matter what their age.  They are saved in the celestial kingdom and will never be subject to the temptations of Satan.


Clifford E. Young an apostle stated in April 1954 Conference
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For those who are mentally deficient, through no fault of their own, someday these pressures will be lifted.  The healing power of the Almighty will come to their bodies, just as it will come to ours, and as it came to the body of the Savior; and their spirits, which are the offspring of God, will have the privilege of inhabiting bodies, their own bodies that will be healed and free from pressures and afflictions so that there will be no limit to the possibilities of their spirits, their minds, and their souls.


What comfort and joy the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ brings!

4th Sep, 2010 - 1:52am / Post ID: #

Mormon Autistics - Autistic LDS - Autism & Mormons Studies Doctrine Mormon

Hi Pianomom, nice to see you back and thanks for the quotes! smile.gif

I understand the position of the Church with regards to the mentally disabled however, the reason I asked this question was because in the example given the man was autistic and even though there are cases of autistic people having mental retardation, there are also those who have average IQ's. So my question maybe is, where is the line drawn?

Our oldest son (10) who is high functioning was baptized at 8 and even though he knows the difference between right and wrong, some of the things he does are a result of his autistic condition. It's like a mixture of things.

I believe Heavenly Father will assess each one of us individually depending of our circumstances and particularly with persons with special needs, the measure will be a much different one.

Rather off topic, but...
I believe special needs children (if they are taught about the Gospel) become very sensitive despite their lack of awareness or knowledge. Our middle son (4) and our youngest one (2) both of them with special needs become so quiet and so reverent every time they see a video where Jesus Christ is present. They can be very loud at times yet with those videos are on, their eyes are just centered on the Savior while one of them whisper..."Jesus, Jesus".



Post Date: 4th Sep, 2010 - 7:15pm / Post ID: #

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Page 3 Mormons and Autism LDS Autistic Autistics Mormon

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my question maybe is, where is the line drawn?


I don't think that we, as mortals in this life, will ever know where the line is drawn on many issues as we do not have the full light and knowledge. We have the veil placed between us so we have to rely on faith, our limited knowledge, and revelation given through the prophet. In this case, I don't think it is within our realm to draw the line. The area of drawing the line and judgment are the things that Heavenly Father and our Savior through the atonement will work out. All the exceptions and details will either be worked out during the Millenium or during final judgment. This is probably something that we do not have an answer for right now and just need to trust that it will be answered in due time, probably not until after we die. As a parent, this is difficult and frustrating. We want to help our children progress and grow. We want to ensure that their salvation is not in jeopardy. We are to just have faith, teach our children the best we know how, try to understand their limited capabilities to know how to best help them, and rely on the infinite power of the Savior's atonement to make up the difference. I also believe that Heavenly Father will judge us based on our individual circumstances and will take everything into account. He knows us individually and will judge us individually, based on our works. Remember the Savior took the children one by one and blessed them. I believe our Father in Heaven will also take us one by one. The Song O Holy Night says,
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He knows our needs.  To our weaknesses no stranger.
The Father knows all of our needs and all of our weaknesses. Just like you know what your children are capable of and what they are not capable of, so does our Heavenly Father. In fact, he knows more about your sons than you do. Trust in Him. Pray to Him for guidance. Remember that He is a parent. He will help you as every parent wants to help their children. Of all the names that God has, the title that is most sacred to Him that he chooses to be called by is Father. The title of father is of most value to Him.

I know that Heavenly Father will take into account how our physical body, mind, and spirit help us to accomplish our mission on the earth. Try to focus on what your sons are capable of. Focus on their strengths, not their weaknesses. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job trying to teach your children to trust in the Lord. If they always put their trust in the Lord, they will be guided and directed throughout their lives. Children have so much more faith and trust than adults. Children just believe, without questioning. Adults tend to question everything. It sounds too simple to just trust in the Savior, but it is as simple as trusting in Him. It is as simple as doing all the little things that make a big difference--praying, reading the scriptures, fhe, attending the temple, etc...I believe that your sons will be accountable for what they know to be right from wrong. If their autism and how they perceived something made them form a poor decision, then that will be taken into account. The Savior always makes up the difference!

Rather off topic, but...
I also believe that special needs children are extremely sensitive to the spirit. Their minds may have difficulty processing something, but their spirit does not. Where there is a weakness, there is usually a deeper strength possessed which will help you through your trials. Remember the scripture Ether 12:27
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And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Post Date: 7th Sep, 2010 - 11:14pm / Post ID: #

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Our oldest son (10) who is high functioning was baptized at 8 and even though he knows the difference between right and wrong, some of the things he does are a result of his autistic condition. It's like a mixture of things


I can relate because I have an older brother who is high functioning autistic and he definitely knows right from wrong. I think if it wasn't for the gospel he wouldn't be where he is today. He attends college and even lives by himself. Although there were many struggles that are family had to deal with. Many of them came from ward members and leaders who didn't understand or who didn't want to understand. My mother suffered many trials and tribulations but she grew stronger spiritually and it strengthened her testimony. I am just glad that a lot has changed over the years and General Authorities are counseling members and leaders to be more sensitive and understanding.

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8th Sep, 2010 - 12:25am / Post ID: #

Mormon Autistics - Autistic LDS - Autism & Mormons

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Many of them came from ward members and leaders who didn't understand or who didn't want to understand.

That is true with regards to the Church, but I do not blame any of them because if I were looking on from the outside I probably would not get involved either, however what ticks me off is when they pretend to understand what we go through by giving examples of their own 'normal' children and / or giving recommendations (more like tell us) what we are supposed to be doing to 'correct' the child yet they do not even know what Autism is about - that part I don't need.



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Post Date: 8th Sep, 2010 - 9:24pm / Post ID: #

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A Friend

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From the outside looking in I probably wouldn't get involved either.


Just to let you know nobody was asked to get involved. When I said no one understood I meant that they made nasty comments and wouldn't make accomadations for my brother during activities. Just so it is clear. But I know that the Church is perfect the people not so much.

8th Sep, 2010 - 9:41pm / Post ID: #

Mormon Autistics Autistic LDS Autism & Mormons Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 3

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I meant that they made nasty comments and wouldn't make accomadations for my brother during activities.

I know exactly what you meant, I'm the father of three special needs children.



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