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I do not attend LDS church services or activities. I do not read the LDS scriptures, or regard them as divinely inspired. Sometimes I read faithful LDS church members' writings as a form of therapy, to confront my fears and inadequacies and get past them.

My only "personal choice" was to act on my conscience or not. It will not permit me to be a member of the LDS church or otherwise support it anymore, even if I believed that it was "true." (Which I did at first -- I had an extremely strong testimony, and took a very long time to reach this point, apologizing for the LDS church and its members and leaders the whole way. I feel bad for the people who looked up to me.)

I now feel that it is not true, for historical / doctrinal reasons, but I understand that the rules of this board prevent me from discussing them. I also do not like to argue, and would rather discuss things that would help "the least of these" feel accepted and loved, whatever church they happen to be born into.

Edited: Feathertail on 1st Jan, 2010 - 1:46am

Mormons and Autism LDS Autistic Autistics Mormon

Thanks for the clarification. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the above quote?

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It is cathartic for me to confront the things that I used to believe. I now feel that a lot of them are bad ideas, but they still influence me subconsciously, so talking through things in my head helps me get past blocks I'd forgotten I had.

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I appreciate your explanation. I was thinking about this Thread and how you mentioned many times within your Posts about not being understood. This is something my son often says. Sadly he doesn't know that his understanding of things will not help him to survive in a world where everyone else does not 'agree'. I notice that one of the major things we struggle with is the aspect of time. Something that may happen over the course of half an hour such as preparing dinner for him is like three hours and he shows his frustration over it too. It is really a labyrinth of life for both him and us.

Mormons and Autism LDS Autistic Autistics Mormon

Understanding someone doesn't mean that you agree with him or her. And agreeing with someone on something doesn't mean you agree with them on everything.

I'm being vague here, so I'm going to try to clarify.

Feeling things more intensely

Because of my sensitive nervous system, I experience lights, sounds and feelings more intensely than most neurotypicals do. The loud music other LDS youth played in their cars, on rides to Seminary and Institute, had me curled up in the fetal position with my hands over my ears. Even "uplifting" activities held in ward buildings, like Polynesian cultural festivals, were so noisy that I couldn't enjoy them.

Before I understood what made me different from others, I blamed myself for not enjoying these things. (Well, actually I blamed the other LDS kids for their choice of music, because I thought everything that wasn't Classical or Janice Kapp Perry was of the devil. But that's another issue.) I thought I was just broken, and it was inevitable that I would be out in the foyer every time. Now I understand why I don't enjoy these things, and I even understand why some people like metal and loud music in general. My girlfriend's a metalhead -- another sign that autistics are different from each other.

I "disagree" with the people who ran these activities in that I think autistics need to be accomodated. I think it's wrong to think there's something wrong with someone just because they don't enjoy an activity, something I wish one of my Young Men's leaders had grasped sooner.

Not being allowed to escape

Ironically, most people I talk to will recognize personal preference as a reason not to enjoy something ("I just don't like that music"); it's when they hear a completely new reason for something, one that doesn't fit into their list of pre-approved answers, that a breakdown in communication happens. This especially happens when people think you're supposed to like something, or are never supposed to back out of it.

When I was 17 I understood that I didn't like loud music, but I didn't understand why I was having sensory overload (the same kind of reaction I have to loud sounds) when I was at a Seminary devotional. It was an intensely emotional experience, with bearing of testimonies and singers making eye contact as they sang about "sharing the light," and I got extremely uncomfortable. But I didn't let myself leave, because I knew that this was a good thing and it wasn't right to not like it. So instead I stayed there and quietly had a nervous breakdown. And wrote in my journal about how I was an awful, broken, subhuman creature, who didn't deserve to exist.

I had a lot of sensory overload in church and Institute, too ... Especially towards the end, when the dissonance between what I was being taught and what my conscience was telling me became too great to ignore. Far from "helping me become exmormon," though, learning to walk out of class when I needed to helped me maintain my emotional balance and my spirituality, and keep me from making a scene. I just had to overcome the programming I had grown up with: that if I can't sit there for 1-2 hours straight, then there's something wrong with me.

Not being able to protest

The problem I had when I wouldn't let myself do what I needed to was -- I think -- the same problem that parents of autistic children, and autistic children themselves, sometimes have. They don't know any words or concepts to express what they're going through.

Even if you can talk, trying to tell your parents what you're going through as an autistic child -- using a language that has its meaning and context assigned by neurotypicals -- is like trying to say that Big Brother is Double-Plus Ungood, in 1984's Newspeak. It doesn't compute, in the mind of the listener. And if the speaker doesn't know any other words or ways of communicating, she may not even be able to form the concept in her own mind. She just gets more and more frustrated with herself and decides that she's broken, like I did. And expresses herself in ways like self-injury, like I did, because the more acceptable ways just aren't working for her.

The Upshot

The reason that life is a "labyrinth," and autistic people are "puzzles" to neurotypicals, is because of a lack of understanding. Understanding other people, and having the tools (words) to communicate our feelings and intents, helps us accept them and ourselves for who we are ... Even if we disagree about other things.

Rather off topic, but...
Sorry for formatting this post like one of my nonfiction articles. Breaking up a huge wall of text helps make it more readable, I think. I also find it appropriate that I'm trying to explain all this on a board that's designed to restrict what words you can say, what concepts you can express, how many emoticons you can use, whether or not you can capitalize something after a trailing ellipsis (...), whether or not you can link to things that help to explain a concept, and whether or not you have your religion displayed in big bold text at the top of each entry.

If I were a powerless autistic child trying to tell someone here -- or in an environment as legalistic and restrictive as this one -- why I was in imminent danger of a meltdown, I'm not sure I'd even be able to finish. I'd just get tripped up and corrected as I broke yet another rule that I hadn't learned yet, and I'd go and implode in a corner while everyone wondered what's wrong with me.

I personally have the time, energy, and patience to deal with this board's (IMO) weird customs, because I'm mature and experienced and because I feel that it's important that I contribute here. And because if I can't, it's no skin off my nose; I can just go anyplace else on the 'net, and lick my wounds 'till I recover.

Growing up autistic in neurotypical society, though, you have to learn rules that make no sense to you, and were designed for completely different people who don't have the same needs and feelings. And if you can't -- or if your feelings and needs are left out -- everyone thinks it's your fault.

Message Edited...
Persephone: Please use the Offtopic Tags so that the Thread maintains the SAME subject matter and does not develop into another Topic. See Constructive Posting Policy.

Mormon Autistics - Autistic LDS - Autism & Mormons

I believe it is also important to mention that when you meet a person with Autism you meet "a" person with Autism. In other words, not all Autistic are alike, nor should they be compared. Similarities may exist but it is a very broad spectrum. Where as you may have savant qualities my son does not so in addition to his confusion it takes an immensely long time for him to learn a basic task - agree or disagree or understand or not understand - it does not matter. A simple example, if the body is designed to excrete waste a certain way then it has to be done in a certain place and a certain time. Understanding or agreeing is irrelevant because the body is going to do its thing. This is for the sake of health and well being of both self and others.

I am by no means discounting what you are saying. I understand just what you mean. I have some of that understanding because I live with it everyday. I have three children each with specific needs. For you it was just you. What about three children with Autism who do not understand each other? We try to understand them, they try to understand us, they try to understand each other. Its a labyrinth. You see each situation is different.

Yes that is understood but unfortunately ESP and other forms of communication are limited or non-existent so what can one do. If you have come up with a brilliant solution I will like to read it. Of course someone may be gifted in sensing the meaning of a communication but isn't that what it is all about... Is the message received and understood as was intended? If you have solutions I will like to read them. I understand your past has affected you as does it to all people who have a past, I understand you left the Church, but I am not sure what you hope to accomplish by dwelling on it.

If you have suggestions for how you believe people can help someone who has special needs then I think that will be a worthwhile read.

Rather off topic, but...
The rest I will Post in your Intro Thread as it is not relevant to this Discussion. You can check there for it.

Mormon Autistics Autistic LDS Autism & Mormons - Page 5

I did think I needed to start out my posting here by explaining that I was no longer part of your church and why, since you probably found me from my writings about being LDS and autistic and I didn't want to confuse anyone. Or pretend to be something I'm not anymore. I'm not dwelling on my leaving your church, though, or at least I wasn't trying to in that last post. I was using my experiences in it as examples of times that I dealt with sensory overload. Which is maybe because I grew up in the LDS church, and so a lot of the times that I dealt with anything were LDS church-related.

And you're right that I can only speak for myself. What I'm saying is mostly mirrored from the autistic writers I've learned it from, though, who gave me the words to express what I grew up not being able to. That's basically what I was trying to get at: Even though I was (and am) a "high-functioning" autistic, even though I could speak and use language, I couldn't communicate my distress at things that didn't bother anyone else. Or why I couldn't do what my parents or school or church or scout leaders wanted. I could only get frustrated with myself, and wish for some magical way to make these dumb problems I had disappear.

I tried to force myself to behave, but that only made things worse. It wasn't until I realized why I was having so much trouble, and had words to explain what the trouble was, that I started to figure out how to accomodate my own differences. It doesn't mean I never have trouble behaving the way that I want to, just like understanding the reasons my brother is cruel doesn't make him much easier to deal with. But at the very least I'm more patient with myself, and sometimes even with him.

I have no idea how this relates to parenting autistic kids, who are making a mess and not obeying the rules. I have never been in that situation, and I don't pretend to have been. If what I'm saying is worthless or off-topic to you, then please feel free to ignore it. I can only say what I learned, that made me easier for myself to deal with. And that's what I tried to do. I'm sorry about the confusion.

Mormon Autistics Autistic LDS Autism & Mormons Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

Name: Molly
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Comments: The church has been updating its handbooks about helping members who have extra challenges. Its all up to your local ward though because no two wards are alike. In one ward you might get a lot of help and in another ward you might feel ignored.