Related Information to LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays

LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays - Page 22

I don't like that at all, but to a limited degree it is very true. That is the role of government. I liked the rest of your post as well.
Forget all the bad things I said about you Big D. I think my debate skills on this subject just went up because of you. However I look forward to disagreeing with you in the future about something.

Rather off topic, but... bobnbritw I don't want you to take this in the wrong way. I don't think you are a bad guy or anything. I just seriously disagree with you on this. Everyone can attest that I am highly offensive and opinionated many times. None of your liberal comrades backed you up on this? You made a valiant effort to get your point across and I have respect for that. I do think you lost this one though. Please continue if you feel as though you have not lost.

Gays Mormon Marriage Gay Perspective LDS

In 1993, Boyd K. Packer called the gay-lesbian movement an area of great danger

It seems that there is a tendency among some church members that it is ok to tolerate homosexuality, instead of fighting to protect traditional marriage. In my opinion, I believe I have made covenants to protect the law of chastity, and I will support civic measures to promote traditional marriage.

This position affects my political stance because my first allegiance is to my God, whom I made promises to and covenants with before this earth life and also during my mortal probation. I will protect the laws of God and the sanctity of families until I utter my last breath.

LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays Studies Doctrine Mormon

Quasar:

There is another thread on this forum that talks about Lucifer. This is a deep subject and one that I am not going to get into on this thread. I would definitely not say I am defending him. A lack of respect/understanding of what his position is in the grand scheme of things is also dangerous.

dbackers:

Yes, of course this is true. We have many laws in place that restrict the rights of some individuals for the betterment of most. Laws like taxes and criminal laws. But as I have said before we don't have any laws that are restrictive of a group of persons based only on the moral values of others. Just because I might find it offensive for gay people to be married doesn't mean I should be able to disallow it. We talked about this before. Here is where I say we are just going in circles.

Elder Oaks:

I personally don't believe it is legal under the constitution to proceed with this restriction of freedom. I am not alone in this opinion, even conservative Supreme Court Justices have felt this same way, and as I have said they are the ones who are supposed to interpret law.

Rather off topic, but... Quasar, I appreciate the charm point. I will never concede defeat! You are free to have your opinion and I am free to have mine and obviously "never the twain will meet." I don't believe that I have lost, perhaps many of the "liberals" that used to post on this thread have grown tired of it, as I am beginning to. If you want you could look back through the entire thread to see their responses. A little constructive criticism. Being less offensive in your rhetoric could help you to get your opinion across better in all of the threads that you post on. This doesn't have to be personal, it can be about different people having a difference of opinion.

Page 22 Gays Mormon Marriage Gay Perspective LDS

I will respectfully disagree.

There are hundreds of laws based on the moral values of others. You may disagree with these laws but they are there.
Here are a few: The regulation of Prostitution, Laws pertaining to over the air broadcast of obscenity (Radio and Television). Laws pertaining to public Nudity, lude behavior. Marrying of siblings and close relatives. Laws regulating sexual unions between Minors and adults. Laws pertaining to Gambling. limitations on Partial Birth abortions. There are many laws that are based on morality in the United States.

As we have seen there are laws that do restrict the freedom of one group of people to reflect the values of the society. I believe it is a matter of opinion wether homosexual marriage or marriage in general should be defined by society or defined by individuals. If it is defined by society, then in California, Florida and Arizona Society (by the vote) has defined Marriage as between one man and one woman. I hope that a small group of Judges cannot overturn societies wishes just because they do not like the outcome.

You seem to be restricting moral values to strictly Sexual issues. I would argue that all law is based on the moral value of one group, that inevitably restricts the freedom of another group. Prohibitions against theft (the moral value that it is wrong to take what is not yours), assault and Battery (the moral value that it is inappropriate to use violence to achieve a means) and murder ( the moral value that holds innocent life at a high regard) all exist because they are not in agreement with the moral values of society as a whole. These are not comparable with Homosexuality, but the point is, that society has always had the right to have restrictions on certain activities based on its moral value.

Gays Mormon Marriage Gay Perspective LDS

Well bobbnbrit we can hold hands and sing Kumbaya in the next life. But as it stands now you are still supporting an institution that mimics a secret combination (is one).

Defeat is a foregone conclusion for these types of groups and their supporters. That is if you believe all of that silly stuff that our religious doctrine says. I appreciate your tenacity but you will eventually concede defeat on this matter. No unclean thing can enter in the kingdom of God. That includes practising homosexuals.

Edited: Quasar on 13th Nov, 2008 - 9:06pm

LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays

dbackers:

You call this out every time and I have answered this every time. Of course the examples you have stated do exist, but it is because the violation of those moral laws infringes on the freedoms of the victim. To make it very simple if you kill someone you infringe upon that persons freedom to live. I do not see how, except for the possibility that I might not like it, that homosexual marriage infringes on any of my freedoms.

If these judges overturn societies wishes it will be because they deemed that it was not legal for the issue to even be put for a vote. By Elder Oaks statements, that you brought up, that is truly what should be investigated.

Quasar:

That much is obvious. My argument about homosexual marriage has nothing to do with a belief of any kind of divine acceptance of homosexual marriage, and everything to do with whether or not we should be involved with limiting a group of persons freedoms.

At this point, I believe I am done debating this subject. Neither side has offered up anything new in quite some time. I guess if anyone is able to come up with a new angle on it I might rejoin. The lines are drawn. Either you believe that we should be involved in this or not. And, Quasar my withdrawal in no way means that I concede defeat. It just means I am tired of going in circles with you and Dbackers. Thanks for the thoughts. Some were better than others.

LDS Perspective Gay Marriage Mormon Gays - Page 22

Things like this are easy to defend and debate when it is a remote issue until you bring it closer to home:

1. You discover someone in authority is playing with young boys
2. A homosexual teaches your underage son about the life of being gay
3. You are harassed by someone who does not understand you are not gay or interested in being gay
4. You are accused of being gay even though you are not
5. You see someone who is gay subtly preying on other males and although you warn leaders of such things happening they shrug it off until things go too far and someone is hurt
6. That you can do what you want, just do not force me to agree with what you want

However the worst of all these in my opinion...

7. That God has put this as an abomination in His sight yet many still find reasons to make it palatable, acceptable, tolerable, or even enjoyable.

LDS Perspective Gay Marriage Mormon Gays Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 22

It seems like the only reason that so called homosexual marriages have been made legal in this country is that courts comprised of a few people have decided for the rest of humanity that this is how marriage should be defined (California's as well as Massachusetts supreme courts overturning the will of the people and forcing Same Sex "marriage" on society).

Since when, in any free country, should the opinions and will of 4 to 11 men and women decide how society should view marriage. I would be frustrated if the people as a whole someday decided that Same Sex marriage was valid (I would do what I could to persuade society that marriage should remain as a union between a man and a woman), but I am downright angry that courts can overturn any law that has been voted on by the people. Should not the people's will decide what that society should be like. The ultimate secret combination, in my opinion, is a select few forcing their ideals and opinions on the majority. Even if you do not agree with defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman, aren't you a little bit disturbed that a small group of less then a dozen men and woman can decide what society should look like? Such actions by the court seem like a dictatorship (or atleast and Oligarchy) if I ever saw one.