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Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 9

Someone asked me today why it is that men can be married to more than one wife in the eternities, but not the woman to more than one man. Sounds deep and is based I am sure on some sort of identity process that only the Lord understands. The 'Proclamation to the World' on families it does mention this in the second or third paragraph, cannot remember exactly which one.

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

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Boy, where to begin!  This has been a fantastic discussion! What a way to start visiting here....

Anyway. Thank you to LDS_forever for the quotes from Todd Compton's book and the BY discourse. I hadn't seen some of those paragraph's of Compton's (haven't read the book yet), and had never seen BY's discourse on that one at all. Pure Brigham.

Roz, I was going to quote the same verse from D&C 132. I noticed that one one day, and IMO it's been dismissed here too soon.  

The entire verse 41 reads: "And as ye have asked concerning adultery [which seems also to be the question here today], verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, *and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing*, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed."

It seems clear to me as it was to Roz that concerning polyandry, the Lord here has left a "legal" (in earthly terms) clause to allow for Him to command otherwise than His own law, as He later apparently did with Joseph -- command and provide a holy annointing for some women to have more than one husband.  Plural marriage is in itself this kind of higher law, superseding the law of one husband/one wife we now practice, and which the Nephites practiced. Those of the Nephites who justified more than one wife and concubines based on former scripture (David, Solomon, etc.) instead of current revelation were condemned. (Jacob 2: 22-35.)  Yet Joseph was clearly not condemned, not even for taking to wife those who were already married to others, which D&C 132:41, and 132:66 open the door for. (66 says "I will reveal more unto you, hereafter", clearly implying that there is more to the Law of Celestial Marriage that the Lord was acknowledging His right to reveal to Joseph in His own due time. The fact that polyandry and in particular Joseph's polyandry takes us way way WAY out of our comfort zones doesn't negate the fact that our Father in Heaven does appear to have commanded Joseph to take these women to wife.  Why? You are asking.  I think only Father now has those answers for each of us.

This contradictory commandments is a pattern throughout all of earth's religious history. Adam and Eve were given conflicting commandments. Don't eat the fruit. Multiply and replenish the earth. Eve, in her great wisdom and courage, chose the greater law. (see Beverly Campbell's book, _Eve and the Choice Made In Eden_, Bookcraft, c. 2003).  Abraham was commanded, like we all are, to commit no murder. It is part of God's law in every age. Yet, the very God who saved him from being sacrificed commanded him toward the end of his life to sacrifice his own son. This Abraham was willing to do, even tho it violated every right feeling, every instinct, every personal inclination (I've always wondered if he threw up just thinking about what he was being asked to do). Abraham was willing, and very nearly completed the sacrifice for one reason only. He understood certain things most of us are still struggling to accept in our own lives. (Including me -- I am not leaving myself out here) Abraham loved God, He knew God, and He *knew* God could command in ALL things, regardless of His other laws He has given to us, even if that very same new command contradicted a previous one. Even if that very same law apparently contradicted and would negate EVERY promise God had previously made.  That is why such a trial is called an Abrahamic Test.  A test we all must be tested with, and according to Joseph Smith, we all must pass--to be willing to sacrifice all things for the glory of God, our Father.

Nephi was commanded to slay Laban. There's a prophet in the Old Testament, Isaiah was it?, who went naked for 3 solid years at the command of the Lord. Wasn't that against the Law of Moses? Even if it wasn't, it was contrary to the social mores of the time.  Pres. Hinckley practically denied the doctrine of us being able to become gods in our own right on national television (international?). Does anyone who has prayed about it really think he was doing other than God's will?

Joseph, I believe, and Mary Lightener's words bear witness to, was commanded with each and every one of those wives, including those already married to others. Were there sexual relations with his wives? I'm inclined to believe the testimonies of those who lived through it, and believe that it was a test Joseph was required to pass through.  Intimate relations with all of them? I wouldn't even begin to hazard a guess. What I have done is taken it to the Lord in prayer, and felt peace and assurance from the Spirit that Joseph did only that which he was commanded to do by God, no more, no less, to the best of his ability, and the Lord was pleased with his servant Joseph. And with that I have been satisfied that these things happened for a reason known to God. Now Trinidad, I know you called that the Nephi thing, and going soft, but honestly, with such a question, and without the ability to sit down with those who lived it and obtain a first-hand interview, how else can we come to a place of peace concerning it except from God himself? And we are each entitled to know the truth of all things. It's one of the promises and privileges that comes with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I think a passage in Lorenzo Snow's biography written by his sister, Eliza R. Snow Smith, hints a bit at one possible reason for the plural marriages, including the polyandry:

QUOTE

Eliza R. Snow, Biography of Lorenzo Snow, p.68?70: While my brother was absent on this, his first mission to Europe, changes had taken place with me, one of eternal import, of which I supposed him to be entirely ignorant. The Prophet Joseph had taught me the principle of plural, or Celestial Marriage, and I was married to him for time and eternity. In consequence of the ignorance of most of the Saints, as well as people of the world, on this subject, it was not mentioned only privately between the few whose minds were enlightened on the subject. Not knowing how my brother would receive it, I did not feel at liberty, and did not wish to assume the responsibility of instructing him in the principle of plural marriage, and either maintained silence, or, to his indirect questioning, gave evasive answers, until I was forced, by his cool and distant manner, to feel that he was growing jealous of my sisterly confidence -- that I could not confide in his brotherly integrity. I could not endure this, something must be done. I informed my husband of the situation, and requested him to open the subject to my brother. A favorable opportunity soon presented, and, seated together on the lone bank of the Mississippi river, they had a most interesting conversation. The Prophet afterwards told me that he found that my brother's mind had been previously enlightened on the subject in question, and was ready to receive whatever the spirit of revelation from God should impart. That Comforter which Jesus said should "lead into all truth," had penetrated his understanding, and while in England had given him an intimation of what at that time was, to many, a secret. This was the result of living near the Lord, and holding communion with Him. It was at the private interview referred to above, that the Prophet Joseph unbosomed his heart, and described the trying mental ordeal he experienced in overcoming the repugnance of his feelings, the natural result of the force of education and social custom, relative to the introduction of plural marriage. He knew the voice of God. He knew the commandment of the Almighty to him was to go forward, to set the example, and establish Celestial plural marriage. He knew that he had not only his own prejudices and Prepossessions to combat and to overcome, but those of the whole Christian world stared him in the face; but God, who is above all, had given the commandment, and He must be obeyed. Yet the Prophet hesitated and deferred from time to time, until an angel of God stood by him with a drawn sword, and told him that, unless he moved forward and established plural marriage, his Priesthood would be taken from him and he should be destroyed! This testimony he not only bore to my brother, but also to others, a testimony that cannot be gainsayed. From my brother's journal: "At the interview on the bank of the Mississippi, in which the Prophet Joseph explained the doctrine of Celestial Marriage, I felt very humble, and in my simplicity besought him earnestly to correct me and set me right if, at any time, he should see me indulging any principle or practice that might tend to lead astray, into forbidden paths; to which he replied, 'Brother Lorenzo, the principles of honesty and integrity are founded within you, and you will never be guilty of any serious error or wrong, to lead you from the path of duty. The Lord will open your way to receive and obey the law of Celestial Marriage.'   ***During the conversation, I remarked to the Prophet I thought he appeared to have been endowed with great additional power during my mission in England. He said it was true; the Lord had bestowed on him additional divine power."***

Well, it's past my bedtime now, so I am going to have to let this suffice.  I hope this isn't too... ummm... strong? for a first real post.....   I'm going to ask forgiveness right off the bat if I've offended. No offense is intended! I know I sometimes phrase things in such a way that I sound arrogant, but i don't mean to. It's that darned Massachusetts upbringing..... ;-)

nite.

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Studies Doctrine Mormon

I thought this might also be of interest. It is a vision of the Pre-existence which Mosiah Hancock had and recorded. It contains some insights into the reason behind plural marriage, and its eternal nature.  I've quoted the entire text, which can be found at https://www.2s2.com/chapmanresearch/user/do...ts/hancock.html

[quote]A Vision of The Pre-Mortal Existence of Spirits Given to Mosiah Hancock in 1853

Compiled By Glen W. Chapman May 1996


From Writings of Early Latter-day Saints Chap. Mosiah Hancock Auto, typescript, BYU-SPg 56

"I shall now return to Payson. {visions} About the time I was one and twenty years of age, I know not whether to call it a dream or a vision; some have classed it a dream. I do not expect to give it in full: for to me it is sacred, beyond expression, especially some things I have no power to describe in words or to express in writing. Me thought I was taken away somewhere to Oh! such a Glorious Realm. I saw He whom at that time we Reverently spoke of as The Great Eternal. I saw the females at his right side. I have no idea of their number. I there saw the Savior; and calling me by name He said, "Mosiah, I have brought you here that you may know how it was before you went to yonder earth." Thinks I, What earth? for it seemed to me that I had no knowledge of an earth. He said, "As it is written in the Beginning, God created man, male and female, created He them." "And know you that no man is man without female, and that in the Lord. And no female is female without the male, and that in the Lord." I shall not attempt to tell how they were formed...suffice it to say, they were created in pairs, the male and his female. And as they came up to the throne of the Great Eternal the mothers seemed to name the females, and Oh! the respect they seemed to entertain for each other as they marched forth. The right elbow of the female seemed to touch the left elbow of the male. I should judge the males, generally to be about six feet two inches in height, and the females some three or four inches less. Their forms seemed as perfect as a new born infant, with no interference. They marched forth clothed in robes of a light color, tied in front.


They were instructed in everything that could be imagined, the finest oratory and everything of literary turn, including astronomy, trigonometry, surveying and the use of most delicate machinery. The females were taught to weave, to knit, to sew and to work in everything in their departments. Oh! the music of those spheres; I seem inadequate to touch upon the least of those accomplishments of the Heavenly Characters. Yet they were so orderly and harmonious that it seemed as if one could hear a pin drop. I saw some who became more efficient in science or other knowledge and they were advanced from class to class. It seemed as if the female always kept with her companion for they were always together, for I never saw one fall behind. Even those who had been placed to overlook the classes were always together. The male overlooking the males and his female overlooking females. I even had a companion with me that needed no prompting. It seemed that I had been with the Savior so long, it seemed that I wore the same vesture as his. All at once a Heavenly voice seemed to reverberate, as it were, through the immensity of space and said: 'Hear all ye, Oh my children! We have a world for you on which you can dwell and you can have the chance on coming up as we have come up.' We then gathered together in counsel to devise means of redemption, should it be needed. One arose whom I had always looked upon as the Savior and said that he would go down and lay before the Children of men the gospel that they might have the chance of attaining the glory as the Gods had done by the obedience to the Divine Plan of Life. Then I saw another who supposed his plan to be superior to the plan of the first for he said that he would save all; only that he wanted the glory. I saw that he and his plan were not accepted, so there was considerable commotion. At last I saw, as it were, a platform extended where the contest could be decided. I was indignant at the opposition as we fought with our opponents. The one called Levi became my father, and the one called Clarissa was my mother here on earth. My father seemed a savior as he strove to bring me up in the admonition of the Lord; and blessed be the name of my parents. Clarissa became my mother and she certainly did a Christian duty to me. But there are others who have no right with me or mine, that I cheerfully leave in the hands of One that I know doeth all things well. Although I have been weak at times, I trust that I can be worth of Glory hereafter.


~~continued in next post~~

Page 9 Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

(quote) [Continued from previous post]

Addendum

"When about twenty-one years of age, I was permitted by the power of God, to go into His presence and into my former abode. I saw the Eternal Father on His throne and His wives on His left side, all shining in glory, I saw the Savior and knew Him. It takes the power of the Holy Ghost to tell the difference between the Father and the Son, they look so much alike Jesus said: 'Mosiah, I have brought you here to show you how it was before you went to the earth.' I had been to the earth; everything looked so natural and familiar. I seemed to have been a companion of the Savior and talked with him like a friend. Again, He spoke to me and said: "Look and see man as he came forth." I looked in the direction indicated and saw an innumerable line of God's children extending further than I could see. They were arranged in pairs, male and female, and passed in front of the Eternal Father who named them; and they were clad in long white robes with girdles tied around the waists; each pair seemed to have been created mates. "

"When thus clothed; they were arranged in classes of about two hundred; the males sitting in front and the females behind them. They were taught in the arts and sciences, and everything necessary to make the heart happy The teachers of the classes received the instruction they imparted from certain notable ones, who in turn got their directions from the Father and the Son- I thought I was one to overlook the classes; I also saw Joseph, Brigham and many others engaged in this work of education. I thought as some became more efficient than others they were advanced from class to class I thought my name was Mosiah, and the names of the other brethren there were the same as upon the earth. All at once there was a gathering of these spirits and the voice of the Great Eternal (for that is what we called God there) spoke: "Oh, ye my children," and His voice penetrated throughout space, so countless were His offspring "We have an earth prepared for you, on which you can dwell and have a chance to come up, thru obeying our Heavenly laws."

"I there heard the question asked: "Who will go down and set an example of humility and faithfulness to these my children, that they may be brought, thru obedience to our laws, back into our presence?"

"I thought I saw one in the express image of the Father say, "Father, I will go down and set a pattern of humility and patience that your children, thru my example, may be brought back again." How noble, I thought, He looked when He offered Himself to patient before the children of our Father

I saw another, who seemed to be a very high military officer who arose and said: 'I will go down to yonder earth and surely I will bring all your children back to you so none of them shall be lost.'

The plan of the first was accepted as being the only sure plan for an exaltation The plan of the second was rejected with great kindness, but the second was not satisfied; and while the first stood in great humility by the side of the Father, the second with many who stood in with him, went about among the Heavenly hosts to advocate the plan, that was put forth as the rights of the second. This one was Lucifer, a son of the morning, for
any had been with the Father for countless ages, and learned their lessons well, and he had been no dull scholar. Finally Lucifer openly rebelled against the Father and the Son and six other mighty ones who stood faithful with them and declared, ''I will have it my way." I saw the faithful ones gather around the Father and the Son, and Lucifer's workers gathered around him, when one of the notable ones, who was called Michael, arose and said, 'We will decide the contest' It seemed that a platform was extended into space,. upon which we could operate, by what power I could not tell. We who were faithful to the Father and the Son, had a white star upon us, and the others chose a red star, about one third of the males and females would not accept of either star, but withdrew from the conflict, the females taking the males by the arm, said, "Come, let us not take part with either side. Let us retire-" (When they were cast out after the manner of spiritual warfare,) they had no power to return. When they were all cleared from the platform and Satan and his followers were all cast down, their female companions wept, and we all wept. "

"No females took part against the Father and the Son, but all took sides in their favor, except the. neutral ones already mentioned. After the tears were dried, from our eyes, the voice of the Great Eternal spoke again and said, 'Hear, O ye my children;' His voice penetrating the immensity of space so that all could hear it; it is decreed by the Great Eternal that the females shall not follow their males in their banishment, but for every male that has kept his first estate and fought valiantly for the Father and the Son, there are two females. Again it is decreed that those males who have taken no part in this great conflict shall keep their females and a race of servants shall they be.' I then saw that the notable ones who had taken such an interest in the rights of the Father and the Son were appointed to gather up those lone females whose companions had been cast down They were again placed in classes. each man having two females in the ranks behind him. I there saw that they were again taught in their classes, which now contained about three hundred.

~~continued in next post~~

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

well, I can see why the censoring, but ya have to admit, it's a bit amusing in this case.... ;-)

last bit of the vision:

QUOTE

I next saw Michael and his companion proceed a long way off, to people the earth where Lucifer and his FOLLOWERS HAD BEEN CAST. As time passed, other notable ones followed as they were appointed. During all this time the classes met frequently, being taught by instructors appointed. Each member knew his or her own-place, and took it each time, and the best of order prevailed. They were asked, first the males, and then the females behind them, 'Will you obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, when you go to that earth?' Some would answer, yes, but not all. Some could be asked, Will you obey that law which placed the Gods on high? And in very few cases I would hear the females say, 'I want my own mate' Sometimes the question would be asked of a male, "Will you obey that higher law? and he would answer, 'I wish to enjoy myself with the females' Sometimes when the question would be asked of the females she would reply 'I wish to enjoy myself with the males.' Again the question would be asked of the males, 'If you will not join the Church of Christ, what do you wish to be? He would sometimes say, 'I wish to be a judge, or an officer of high rank among the people ' Then he would be asked, 'Will you sustain the laws of God and also the rights of all mankind?' and the answer in every instance was, 'yes. ' I saw there that those who were proficient in their classes were advanced more rapidly until they became most perfect in those heavenly teachings, but some males, even there in Heaven would neglect their females and their classes and not meet with them. They would go off, arm in arm, as men now go, not having any desire for their duties. I never saw a female leave her place in the class assigned her by the Heavenly powers. I saw Abraham, when he came back from the earth, and many of the notable ones, when they came back to be crowned I saw them step upon the platform of the Gods and receive their crowns, and enter into their exaltations. At last I saw the time when Joseph was to go forth, and the voice of the Great Eternal said, 'Oh, my neglected daughters, gather around these my faithful servants who have been faithful in teaching you the principles of righteousness and of our kingdom, that others may come up and have the chance to be glorified-'' I saw many of them gather around Joseph and form a ring with him and the Savior in the center. They made a covenant with him that they would meet him on the earth and help him establish that great work upon the earth. I saw many of them gather around Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and many other notable ones, and around many who have not become so notable. They formed rings around each of them with Christ in the center each time, for He rehearsed to them the Covenant. They would take each other by the hand, in the circle and bow their faces down to Him, in the center, and in the most solemn manner agree to meet them here, until every one of those neglected daughters was provided for; and they were filled with such joy that their songs made a paradise of the realm." "At last The time came for me to go to the earth. The Savior came to me and said, 'Mosiah, it is time for you to prepare to go. You have been faithful so long here it is time for you to go, that you may return and be as we are.' As I beheld Him, I thought, 'How is it that I am not as you are now? For it seemed, that I knew nothing of the earth or the changes a probation there would make in me. However, I said, 'Who will go down to that earth, and be my father, and help me that I may be brought in the ways of truth and righteousness?'' A male by the name of Levi stepped forth, in the presence of the Son, and said, 'I will go down to yonder earth, and by the help of the Great Eternal, I will try to do as well by you as you have done for me, for I am grateful to you for all your kindness to me.' He returned to his place, being an instructor of a class. I was one among others who was appointed to instruct him and the other teachers of classes. A female came out of the class and bowing before the Savior and me, said, 'I will go down and be your mother.' In a short time the man disappeared and was immediately followed by the woman. I knew my departure was near at hand and I asked, 'If on my return I could have the same position I then held.' Then the Savior said, Yes, and greater, but you have to go down to the earth, and take a lowly position and be misunderstood by man, even your brethren and endure many hardships ant set many examples of humility and patience, that you may return and enter the glory, even such as I have.' He then added, 'Your time is now come to take your mission to the earth,' and He laid His hands on my head, as He had done to others, and set me apart for that important mission. He again said to me, 'I will see you safely thru until you return again.' I fully believe on that promise. It seemed as though a way was opened before me, and I dived down toward the earth with the speed of lightening and awoke while sailing thru space. The End. Mosiah Hancock

I had to do it in three parts because the program didn't like my message length. Is there some limit to the amount one can post? I must've missed that in the rules. Sorry if I've broken any. I think the content is worth it :-)

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...

QUOTE

Now Trinidad, I know you called that the Nephi thing, and going soft, but honestly, with such a question, and without the ability to sit down with those who lived it and obtain a first-hand interview, how else can we come to a place of peace concerning it except from God himself? And we are each entitled to know the truth of all things. It's one of the promises and privileges that comes with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Huh? Nephi thing?

Welcome to the forum, good to see you are very much into the doctrine. I removed the censoring from that particular word so things will seem 'normal' again. I read most of your opening comments, do not have time to read the whole thing, but will check it out later. However, I am a firm believer that there are just certain things we do not have to be praying about because they make doctrinal sense. I do not want to be misunderstood. I am implying that if we have to stop and ask at each new thing we hear... 'Is this true?' then we would be all day like that. I do not dispute at all the law of plural marriage, it is obviously an ordinace of God, I am just trying to understand the doctrinal basis for marrying a man's wife and then not saying anything to him about it. Or practising a law and not telling the members about it for 9 years. Anyone could see this as a form of deception. Understand? The other thing that is interesting... why does not the Church leaders handle these doctrines. We should not have to rely on quotes from books and visions that are not in the 'main stream' of the Church.

I will post more later when I have time

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... - Page 9

AH!!! Now I understand you!  It's kind of like the frustration I felt growing up Catholic and the only answers I could get from the priests for my 100 million questions about doctrine was "It's a mystery, no one can know".  Used to drive me crazy. I was convinced that If God was omnipotent and actually cared about us, He'd give answers instead of claiming everything was a mystery. Sorry - I clearly did not understand your reference to Nephi.

I've wondered, also, why the  Brethren aren't handling these questions. My current conclusion, while not completely satisfying to me, is that either they don't have the answers (which I doubt), or else they are just being told by God that it is better NOT to answer.  I have to conclude, given the witness of the Spirit that Pres. Hinckley is the Lord's mouthpiece on the earth, that the Lord himself is requiring silence on these things.

In the face of the silence on it,  I've come to my own conclusions through prayer and study of these things -- that Joseph really was commanded by God to marry who he married, because the bonds which were pre-existing for aeons of time, since the war in heaven (Mosiah Hancock's vision gives insight into this) were greater than the mortal ones.  Eliza R. Snow's comments in her brother's biography that I quoted helped me tremendously to understand the mindset of those who lived through it, and quieted my fears enough to trust the Spirit instead of my own understanding.

It seems to me we in our day have to make the same adjustment in our attitude Joseph struggled to bring the people of his day to -- that of leaving behind the traditions of men in order to do Heavenly Father's bidding. Thankfully we are not being asked to LIVE this law; just accept that in this dispensation of the fullness of times in which the restoration of all things is taking place, even premortal bonds between a man and his wives were being restored regardless of earthly laws at times.

What do you think? Is God able to restore immortal bonds and ignore the earthly ones in order to do so? Does He have that power? Can God do this and continue to be God? And I guess the big question for me is now, Why was it necessary? Did it have to do with Joseph's eternal progression, the women's? Their husbands'?  If God's work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, then perhaps in even this polyandry in which Joseph was involved Heavenly Father knew something about the spiritual needs of those who lived this that required this hurculean sacrifice.

That's my take on it all. Bottom line for me -- the Spirit gave me peace and comforted me that all was as God willed it, and I no longer am troubled by any of it. I have a bunch of questions I hope to someday have answered by the major players involved, but for now I'm content to trust the Holy Ghost on it and put the rest of my question on the shelf.  

On the GospelLinks CD there are some really great journal entries regarding polygamy. I'll post them if anyone wants them. I copied them into a word document. Fascinating stuff. So many of those who practiced this in the first few years in Nauvoo were given tremendous visions of its eternal purpose and power.

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 9

QUOTE

I've wondered, also, why the  Brethren aren't handling these questions. My current conclusion, while not completely satisfying to me, is that either they don't have the answers (which I doubt), or else they are just being told by God that it is better NOT to answer.

I am sure they know something about it, maybe not the full ins and outs, but they do know more than we. I believe like any other doctrine that is not understood by us now it may be difficult for the general membership to accept. Could you imagine if part of the new member discussions involved this thread? There may be some who would fall away. I remember once writing to the First Presidency some years ago about the issue with blacks and the Priesthood. They replied saying they did not know the reason and gave referrence to the scripture in Abraham about the lineage of Cain. They also said the Lord has not revealed much about it. So it is fact that although they are revelators, yet they are not entitled to necessarily know all things concerning the doctrine of the Church. However, my issue with this thread is having a doctrinal basis... the issue with blacks can be seen doctrinally via the Old Testament...  however a man that is sealed to a woman then having that SAME sealed woman being marrier to another man is hard to swallow, I am yet to see the doctrinal significance of it. Remember, we teach that once you are sealed to your wife, you are promised that you will be in that same companionship in the hereafter, but according to the JD maybe not so in the case of some of the Brethren?

[offtopic]

QUOTE

On the GospelLinks CD there are some really great journal entries regarding polygamy. I'll post them if anyone wants them.

Want to post the whole CD? LOL. I want to get that CD, but it is a bit too expensive. I am sure it is easier to use than thumbing through an encyclopedia.

By the way, if you copy text, make sure to use note pad rather than word, as word has characters that may not show here properly. You will know ifyou post and see numbers appearing in your text.

I look forward to your comments in other threads on here.[/offtopic]