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Last Days Signs - Mormon White Horse Prophecy - Page 2

Really? Do you think the (illegal) Iraqi and Afghanistan conflicts are not war? Neither one is even close to being "over" -- and we (the U.S.) have our troops poised to strike anywhere, anytime. Which, of course, makes us a convenient target.

I didn't mean to say that we aren't in war right now, just that it we are barely in it. Compared to WWI, WWII, or any of the conflicts of the 20th Century where we weren't involved (Russia, Ukraine, China, India - Pakistan, most of Africa, most of South America, all of the Balkans.

Again, the US is hardly in war right now. We have troops stationed in foreign countries, some of whom are under frequent attack. But we certainly aren't involved in any real combat.

No, I don't. As I said, it is something I have only heard a little about. The Kingdom of Zion website didn't really have anything. Ogden Kraut wrote a book or two about these ideas, but I haven't bought any of his work.

NightHawk

Prophecy Horse White Mormon Signs Days Last

Nighthawk said:

Okay, well... I don't want to quibble over degrees of war/combat.

No, I don't. As I said, it is something I have only heard a little about.

This is in 2 Nephi, Chapter 3. It's Lehi blessing his last-born son Joseph, where he talks about a branch broken off that will raise up "a choice seer", and quotes Joseph of Egypt that one "great like unto Moses" will be raised up from his seed "to deliver thy people out of Egypt" (Egypt being a symbol of the USA?). The Branch Prophet has to be a descendant of Lehi's son Joseph. The LDS church says this "seer" is fulfilled in Joseph Smith, but there is a contradiction here. Joseph Smith is not descended from Joseph of Egypt or of Lehi -- he was a European Gentile. Verse 24 *does* speak of Joseph Smith "who shall do much good" as far as "bringing to pass much restoration.... unto the seed of thy brethren."

It's a controversial position, I know. But the Branch Prophet will be a Native American (south or north? I don't know...) in the Last Days. I could probably Google up some web sites for links if you want to read more about this.

In my opinion, of course.
Roz

Last Days Signs - Mormon White Horse Prophecy Studies Doctrine Mormon

This is basically what I said.

The Church now seems to claim that this verse was talking about Joseph Smith. However, during the 19th century, it appears that the discussion was about a Lamanite prophet. It is also my understanding that this is a Lamanite prophet.

NightHawk

Page 2 Prophecy Horse White Mormon Signs Days Last

Nighthawk said:

Sorry, I got a little carried away and forgot the previous post...

Okay, I need to ask a stupid question then. Did Lehi's son Joseph eventually become a Lamanite? I thought the Josephites were part of the Nephites? Or maybe because his seed was so few after the wiping out of the Nephites, they intermarried with the Lamanites? That last one kind of makes sense. Hm.

Roz

Prophecy Horse White Mormon Signs Days Last

Remember that a time came, recorded in 3 Nephi and 4 Nephi, where all the people became one. There were no Nephites and no Lamanites. Eventually, they separated themselves out by behaviour rather than by race. So, the Lamanites of today are actually a remnant of both groups. Also, it was a group of Nephites that sailed off into the sea (most agree that this was the Pacific ocean). Thus, Polynesians and others in the South Pacific could easily be pure Nephites.

Hope this helps.

NightHawk

Edited: Nighthawk on 3rd Dec, 2003 - 10:35pm

Last Days Signs - Mormon White Horse Prophecy

I apologize for two posts in a row, but the first was an answer to a question, and this one is an attempt to interject new a new discussion (same topic). This is a synopsis of what I learned from someone else. It makes a lot of sense to me, and feels very correct.

It is commonly taught within the Church that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Mountain of the Lord.

At the same time, it is also commonly taught that Daniel 2:31-35 is speaking of the Church as being the stone cut out of the mountain that fills the whole earth.

There are a couple of problems here. First of all, the stone cut out of the mountain grows to fill the whole earth AFTER it destroys the image in Daniel. Of course the image has been interpreted, by Daniel, to represent the nations of the earth, and we assume that the toes made of clay and iron represent the modern nations that all descend, at least in part, from Rome (the iron) mixed with other cultures (the clay). The Church hasn't destroyed the nations.

Also, Revelation indicates that the Church is overcome by the first Beast. This can be recognized as being the submission of the Church to the US authority in 1890. While we have discussed this in depth on another topic, I would point out that the majority of the saints petitioned the leaders to submit to the US on this subject. Was this the Beast overcoming the Woman? If so, then the Woman is in the wilderness now.

If, as I believe, the prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and John are all interrelated, then we might have to consider the above prophecies in a different light than normal.

If the Church is the mountain spoken of in Isaiah 2, then what is the stone cut out of the mountain that breaks up the nations? I believe it is a small portion of the Church that the Lord takes out and uses. Perhaps these are the 144,000. Perhaps they are the ones who participate in a Last Days Exodus. I believe that after the Church goes through its trials, that these will be the very small remnant who have chosen to follow the Lord no matter what. At the moment, I truly doubt that I would be among them.

Finally, a couple of quotes that apply here:

NightHawk

Last Days Signs Mormon White Horse Prophecy - Page 2

Now you are going to get it! Just kidding.

In reading many of your posts I have to ask the following questions to better understand your school of thought.

1. Do you feel that the Church as a body is becoming weaker because of its management or mismanagement of its current policies? By 'weaker' I mean the core doctrines are not enforced the way they ought to be.

2. Do you feel that the current or future leadership will buckle under som kind of pressure due to a future event?

3. Can it be that the prophecies of the Old Testament may also refer to happenings unknown to this day? Think about it, we probably only have 1/3 of what could make a complete Bible of the Eastern Hemisphere. Maybe some of the prophecyies may relate to end times for not just the last days, but Qumran, etc.

Hope I did not detract there, just want to see where you are going with this before I give analysis.

Last Days Signs Mormon White Horse Prophecy Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

1. I don't really know. I think that the membership are paying less and less attention to our duties. President Benson was very clear in his talks that the Church as a whole is under condemnation for not understanding and using the Book of Mormon enough. I do believe that the 'core doctrines' are being ignored by most of us, to our detriment.

I don't believe that it is really a matter of mismanagement, although I do have a very hard time with some policies that have recently come out (i.e. the policy that temple workers must be clean-shaven - what does that have to do with anything to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?).

2. From my understanding of what I have learned (complex thought there, huh?) from various sources, and based on the following quote, I think that somehow, sometime, there will be a huge mass of confusion within the church.

Now, I remember learning, long ago (at least 30 years) that a time would come when we would have to be "churches" to ourselves and our families within our own homes, as the Church would not be available. At the time, I was too young to explore the idea further, but I do remember the concept, and have read statements that support the idea. Among those who also believe these concepts, the general idea is that at least three of the oldest General Authorities will die within a very short period of time, and this will cause great confusion and apostacy within the church membership. This is when the "One Mighty and Strong" will come forth to "set the church in order." Many believe that this is the resurrected Joseph Smith, as he holds all the keys and authorities of this dispensation. I, personally believe that this is the Davidic King, John the Beloved.

3. Oh, absolutely! Isaiah, in particular applies to three distinct time periods. His own, the time of Jesus' mortal ministry, and the Last Days. However, I think that, just as the Book of Mormon is a type and shadow of the Last Days, Isaiah's description of Jesus' time is also. For example, we know that at least 2/3 of the Book of Mormon was not translated (the sealed portion). I am pretty sure that it contains a clearer and much larger explanation of what John saw in Revelation, as Mormon was commanded to not expound on it because that was up to John.

I will say, in closing, that I am sure that it will be a matter of apostacy among the membership, not necessarily the (mis)management of the Prophet. If the Prophet and his two counselors all died suddenly, and the Lord did NOT move the Apostles to follow established protocol, but rather called someone else as Prophet (just an example here folks) this would cause the type of confusion that I imagine. Once again, this is the reason to follow this advice:

NightHawk