Related Information to Post War Iraq

Post War Iraq - Page 4

From ABC News:

In the anarchy that were the first hours of Baghdad's liberation from
Saddam Hussein's vicious grip, many things were stolen.  Banks were
looted, offices were ransacked, markets were raided -- even hospitals were
not spared from the looters' spree.  The U.S. soldiers and Marines could
not stop it all from happening.  Somewhere in that chaos, looters, perhaps
a group of professional thieves, raided the Iraq National Museum of
priceless treasures.

The Iraq National Museum held rare artifacts documenting the early
civilizations of ancient Mesopotamia.  The Mesopotamians lived in a
portion of what is now called Iraq and were the first people known to have
studied the stars, develop the written word and enforce a legal code.  So,
this is not Iraq's loss, archaeologists point out, it is a loss to all of
mankind.  In addition to the many items that were stolen from the
museum--apparently by experts who may have plans to sell them on the black
market--thousands of other objects were simply smashed and destroyed
forever.

Just today, leading archaeologists from around the world gathered at a
meeting of the United Nations cultural body, UNESCO, to demand a ban on
the export of all antiques, works of art, books and archives from Iraq and
freeze international trade of these objects.

Could this have been stopped? Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld rejects
such charges.  He said "Looting is an unfortunate thing....To the extent
it happens in a war zone, it's difficult to stop."

Iraq War Post

Could it have been stopped?
Possibly.
It would have required (an amateur's opinion, mind you), a much larger force ( a city of five million people), an far more aggressive stance that may well have alienated the general population, and the use of soldiers completely inept at police tactics.

This would have inevitably led to a huge number of civilian deaths, given the passionate nature of the people themselves and the combat circumstances the soldiers were in.

I, for one can't fault General Franks, as his job was to plan a successful war, not keep the annuls of history. And, I don't remember hearing anyone else in the world bring it up before now either. Certainly I never thought about it. Did you, JB?

And, I still haven't heard anyone (except me) ask the question, does not part of the responsibility lie with the Iraqi people themselves? they are looting themselves, robbing their own neighbors? What happened to "the proud Iraqi people"?

They are looting their neighbors and then griping to the US to stop it. Does no one but me see the contradiction here?

I do hate to see the loss of these treasures, being an avid student of history. The FBI and Interpol are already on it, and I hope they can recover some of them.

But I also wonder, does this not sound a bit organized? Are we dealing with someone who anticipated just this very thing and planned for it?

Post War Iraq History & Civil Business Politics

Stranger, glad you liked the article. Despite the hit squad you've sent after me, I still like your posts, usually, as I think you do give much thoughts when you write. But, I somehow think that you also tend to believe everything the military says or do. Maybe you have been a military man yourself, so obedience to your superiors must not be questioned?

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This would have inevitably led to a huge number of civilian deaths, given the passionate nature of the people themselves and the combat circumstances the soldiers were in.

I agree.

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I, for one can't fault General Franks, as his job was to plan a successful war, not keep the annuls of history. And, I don't remember hearing anyone else in the world bring it up before now either. Certainly I never thought about it. Did you, JB?

UNESCO did inform the US about the museums and archaelogical sites.

https://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...raq_unesco_dc_1

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But I also wonder, does this not sound a bit organized? Are we dealing with someone who anticipated just this very thing and planned for it?

There are definitely some very professional thieves taking the opportunity of the chaos. They knew the value of the artifacts. But they have no historical interest and understanding of their stolen goods.

Page 4 Iraq War Post

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And, I still haven't heard anyone (except me) ask the question, does not part of the responsibility lie with the Iraqi people themselves? they are looting themselves, robbing their own neighbors? What happened to "the proud Iraqi people"? They are looting their neighbors and then griping to the US to stop it. Does no one but me see the contradiction here?

Of course it lies also the responsibility in the people of Iraq. The people there are like anywhere Stranger, when chaos and confusion reigns there are always those who take advantage of it. It happens in Iraq, USA, Argentina, eveywhere!.
What happened with this people you ask...simple Stranger they're like dogs that have been in chains for years and now that they're free they want to walk, run, bite, all at the same time. I think it's understandable but by no means I can justify such a terrible behaviour.
You're saying that they're looting and at the same time griping to the US to stop it. Listen, the ones that are griping are not the same that are looting. There are good and honest, hard working Iraqis who want the peace and safety once and for all..to who they can ask help? there is not a government in power, the police is working with the US forces...They don't have any options but to ask the forces who invaded them to establish some peace in the region.
It is very sad to see how some iraqis are taking advantage of such a sad situation like this war to steal, break and destroy things....but then again, if the USA planned a war against them, weren't they (The USA)  supposed to expect some kind of reaction like this one and be prepared somehow?

Iraq War Post

Fireduck,
As a matter of fact, I am a military man. But blind obedience has never been my forte, as a quick look at my record would quickly reveal.
I don't even agree with all of the conflicts the US has engaged in over the years.

I hesitate to criticize in this situation because of the monkey wrench Turkey threw in. We could have had 60,000 more troops on the ground from the get-go, but had to plan around that.

All in all, this will go down in history as one of the most brilliant strategies ever conceived and executed. There is no telling how many lives on both sides General Franks saved by this lightning attack.

What I am concerned with now is the rebuilding. I would like to see the fundamentals addressed, and pronto.
Water, electricity, food, getting the people stirred up and back to work.

I love seeing them arguing and demanding from our troops. It is a GOOD sign. It tells you that no matter that they are arguing with them, they feel safe with our guys. They know they are not going to be harmed, and they are able to gripe and moan and complain for the first time in their lives.

But things are beginning to happen. Other countries in the region are sending aid in, some of the coalition nations are sending peacekeeping forces (what happened to unilateral?).

It is just going to take time.

LDS,
Yes, they are charged with the responsibility of "keeping the peace", and I am sure they will. All things take time.

It's a little difficult to chase down looters when you've got snipers firing at you from a rooftop. It will take time, but it will happen.

Post War Iraq

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What I am concerned with now is the rebuilding. I would like to see the fundamentals addressed, and pronto. Water, electricity, food, getting the people stirred up and back to work.

I totally agree with you in this Stranger. Don't you think they're taking way too long to meet those needs?. The people are going crazy, I can imagine a mother with kids having no water or food at all to feed their children! Why they're taking so long and why they're not allowing the international sources to distribute food yet???

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I love seeing them arguing and demanding from our troops. It is a GOOD sign. It tells you that no matter that they are arguing with them, they feel safe with our guys. They know they are not going to be harmed, and they are able to gripe and moan and complain for the first time in their lives.

Well, watching CNN and BBC this morning they're not really arguing. They want the US forces out of Iraq period!!!. The people were saying that the US said that after Saddam Iraq would be a 'paradise' and it's a nightmare so far. I understand them. Now, I know things take time...but don't you think this is lack of planning and taking really long??? I mean, US forces should supposed to put iraqis citizens in their list of priorities for supplies of water, food and medicine. Why they didn't plan it properly or is it a strategic thing?.
Watching them on TV, I had the impression they (the iraqis) want to make Iraq a totally muslim nation and who knows the men may want to do something like the Taliban did in Afghanistan...I don't know that's the feeling I got when I was watching those images on TV....because then what's the rush for them to kick out the US forces from Iraq knowing they don't have nobody else in power to be able to provide them with the basic things they need right now?.
The other thing it crossed my mind was that maybe Saddam or other iraqi leaders STILL in Iraq waiting for the US to get out of Iraq and then try to get back in power. Sounds too crazy?.

Post War Iraq - Page 4

Yes, I personally think they are taking too long.
Yes, they probably could have planned it better.
The international people are not being held up by the troops. There are a couple of forces at work there.
1- Security. They are afraid, the place still being quite dangerous.
2- Many of them want to make sure they are not associated with the military in any way.
3- The pro-active christian ones have been told by the Iraqis to stay out. They don't want to hear the preaching.
4- The UN is trying to use the supplies they control as leverage against the US.

As for them demanding our troops get out, that is a good thing. That shows they are getting their spirit back and want to carve out their own destinies.

The possibility of a Muslim State exists, but it really isn't up to us to decide. We can only hope.

Saddam still hiding out? Entirely possible. He is a wily fox. But I think the US will be there long enough to smoke him out.

I don't think much of his chances since the US has Army Rangers, Delta Force the CIA and the British SAS in country.

The British SAS are the best in the world, bar none. If he's there, they will find him.

Post War Iraq Politics Business Civil & History - Page 4

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1- Security. They are afraid, the place still being quite dangerous.

Yeah, but come on...they need to provide the security that is needed and distribute the food right away!. They have been trained to do that right?.

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2- Many of them want to make sure they are not associated with the military in any way.

But who cares about that now? People are suffering!.

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3- The pro-active christian ones have been told by the Iraqis to stay out. They don't want to hear the preaching.

It's very hard for me to believe that. Watching the desesperation in the faces of the iraqis for water and food I think they don't care a dime where the supplies come from or whether they preach them or not. They're going crazy Stranger...

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4- The UN is trying to use the supplies they control as leverage against the US.

Whatever  food they're giving is not enough. If the USA or UN cannot handle it then they should  right away allow the international people to enter Iraq and distribute it! Are they waiting for more people to die or what?. This is not the time to discuss where is Saddam or who will be the next President or whatever political stupidity. I see that that's the priority right now and it's wrong. The priority right now is the people and satisfy those basic needs that every human being has the right to.