Related Information to Post War Iraq

Post War Iraq - Page 37

CarKeyBoi since you seem so 'wise' on the topic, you are saying that now Iraq is invaded there will be no other wannabe Saddams in Iraq? Oh please, you cannot change the Middle East, even if you invaded it 100 times.

Iraq War Post

I have found that this is a lost cause. It doesn't matter to the rest of the world how much evidence there is that even Saddam Hussein believed that he had poison gas weapons, biological weapons, and a vital nuclear weapons program (he did help fund the Pakistani weapons program BTW).

It doesn't even matter to people outside the US (and increasingly within the US) that US, British, French, Russian, Italian, German, and Israeli intelligence services ALL had strong evidence that Hussein had and was ready to deploy WMDs. The fact that no overt weapons have yet been found is a blunt weapon to use against the US and especially against GWB.

There were five reasons we used to invade Iraq. (now if I can just remember all of them)
1. They were in violation of, and contempt of, 17 UN resolutions.
2. Hussein was a monster, killing his own people, and threatening surrounding countries.
3. He supported and encouraged international terrorism.
4. A regime change was necessary, to show other terrorism-supporting regimes how dangerous such activity actually is.
5. There was evidence that he was producing and deploying WMDs.

Each item in order:
1. I doubt that anyone can actually dispute this very much. The resolutions are public record, as is the Iraqi arrogant disregard for them.

2. Not even many Arabs dispute this one.

3. He funded, trained, and equiped Hamas, Hezbollah, and many others. There is strong evidence that he provided (at least) training to Al-Qaeda. Heck, he even provided training grounds to various Eurpean domestic terror groups!

4. Pakistan, North Korea, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Syria. All are changing their minds about their courses of development. Granted, they are all changing at different rates. Libya (little, backward, relatively weak) had a lot more developed nuclear program than anyone had ever expected.

5. The evidence is still there. And GWB was NOT the only one to believe the evidence (as described in several messages above). This was the reason that was easiest to explain and press for action on.

So, where are the WMDs? There are a few possible explanations.
a. They only existed in the mind of Hussein. That is, Saddam ordered them developed, and funded them, but there was a vast conspiracy to defraud him. This conspiracy included his sons, all the scientists in the country, as well as top Baath party leaders, not to mention thousands of regular technicians and workers.

b. Saddam had his sons and top generals hide them in the desert.

c. Saddam had his sons and top generals ship them out of the country as the US forces entered the country (there are lots of reports that this did happen, including eyewitness reports of unusual trucks crossing into Syria).

d. They never existed at all.

Of course, the contention of most US liberals (now) as well as many people on this forum and (apparently) most people around the world, is that (d) is the correct answer. This is a great stick to beat up the US with. And no facts are going to get in their way.

NightHawk

Post War Iraq History & Civil Business Politics

good points Nighthawk. There's no doubt that SH DID have WMD's at some point. We know this because we counted them at the end of Gulf 1 and there are still numbers that are unaccounted for. So what the heck happened to them? did he secretly destroy them and bluff that he still had them? did he bury them in the desert? or did he ship them over to Syria during the war (even Gray concedes this was a strong possibility) Either way, i never personally thought SH was an "imminent and direct" threat to the USA in that he never possessed an intercontinental ballistic missile that was capable of delivering a chemical warhead to the US mainland, but left unchecked, i believe that SH would eventually develop a nuclear capability and worse, he had the will to use it against one of his neighboring enemies

SH was a loose cannon in a region who's wellbeing is of the utmost importance to the world. Yup, i'm referring to the oil. It's a FTS(Fact That Sux) that the world NEEDS that oil to be flowing freely from the Middle East (and yes, the USA more than most, coz we're the biggest addicts) And before anyone here gets high and mighty about the USA's addiction to oil, may i remind yuo guys that ALL of yuo reading this post, are addicts too. Almost everything that surrounds us is powered or derived from oil, including the plastic casing of my laptop that i'm using to type this post. If anyone here want's to take moral high ground on this oil issue, then i suggest that they throw away their PC's, their cars, their plasma TVs, the clothes on their back, leave their heated or air-con home and walk out into the rainforest or wilderness, and live off the land

JB, just to let yuo know, that although the Car Key Boi acts like an for the most part, there's more to this than meets the eye. I'm not suggesting that i'm the wisest here, but i've prolly been to more countries than most of the people here, including the Middle East. And i know where yuo're coming from. I don't subscribe to the view that all the non-US folk who are anti-war are automatically anti-US. A case in point, Mrs Key Boi

Yup, my wife is from Chaguanas and like yuo, she's a bit of a lefty peacetard, so I've heard ALL the anti-war arguments. The biggest problem that the anti-war crowd have, is trying to reconcile the fact that opposition to our invasion, means that SH remains in power and the mass slaughter continues unabated. And yuo know something? I agree with yuo that the Middle East is a clustertard of wannabe SHs. However, are yuo suggesting that because there is a possibility that one of these wannabes might at some point in the future, seize power and the slaughter continues once again, that we shouldn't have ousted SH, because it's in their nature to kill each other regardless?

this knows his history, and let me tell yuo something. When WWII broke out, even after the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor, there was a large contingent of American conservatives who were expressing similar sentiments. "It's a Eurotard problem, those are always killing each other, they will continue to kill each other for decades to come regardless, let's not get involved, yes go after Japan coz they've attack us, but lets stay out of Europe!. Germany does not have a plane that's capable of dropping a bomb on our east coast, Hitler isn't OUR PROBLEM!!"

But the Liberal govt. at the time, said yes, Hitler IS a threat to the US, not an immediate threat, but left unchecked, he eventually will be (yeah i know, it's ironic how the respective positions of libs and cons, in regard to disposing murdering dictators, have since reversed)

thing is, the conservative anti-war crowd had a point. Europe's history is drenched in blood. It is a FTS that Eurotard imperialism has been directly responsible for most of the major conflicts throughout the world's history, and btw, i include Vietnam on that score. So the argument that we shouldn't get involved because the Eurotards are always gonna be killing themselves regardless, was a valid argument at the time, perhaps not a moral one but a valid one nonetheless

but we DID get involved, and because of our intervention, Hitler and his cronies were ousted from power. Since Uncle Sam layed the smack down in Europe, those Europeans have been relatively peaceful. Furthermore, it was AMERICAN dollars that rebuilt Europe's infrastructure. It was AMERICAN dollars that helped rebuild their economies

Likewise Japan

Likewise what's happening now in Iraq

Iraq has a great opportunity now. They're sitting on one of the largest oil reserves in the world. The USA has no intention of "stealing" their oil, we're quite prepared to pay for the damn stuff. And if they use our oil dollars wisely, instead of wasting it on lavish palaces and killing each other en masse, there is every possibility that 20-30 years from now, Iraq can be a wealthy modern country instead of the shambles that it currently is and has been for decades

this opportunity is courtesy of our govt. and everyone who supported the invasion. If the Iraqi people make a mess of things, then they only have themselves to blame. But i for one, think that they deserve this opportunity

What about yuo JB? if yuo could turn back the clock and prevent the invasion, would yuo do so? would yuo deny them this opportunity because yuo're cynical about our intentions? would yuo really oppose the ONE thing that would prevent a murderous regime from killing 100's of 1000's of their own people for decades to come?

yeah i know pal, the lovely Mrs Key Boi also has a problem answering this question

-Car Key Boi,
used to be a liberaltard, now a repubictard coz liberals mean well but they only make things worse!

Message Edited! Mr Smith: Watch your content and suggestive content.

Page 37 Iraq War Post

User CarKeyBoi your use of certain choice words is not permitted on this forum. Please read the rules.

Iraq War Post

CarKeyBoi you remind me of a user we had on here called, 'Stranger', he talked just like you, and yes, he was a war vet. You all are alike, at least most of you, and that is not to sterotype As for my thoughts on the subject, I am tired of repeating them... it has all been discussed before and i have shared my views. You can read through from the beginning of this post, but you may also like to check out the threads called, 'Bin Laden Friend or Foe' and the Iraq War thread BEFORE this one.

Offtopic but, Watch the words you use here, the bots will get you for it and may even ban you. Keep everything simple and do not let emotion overwhelm you.

Post War Iraq

Well now that Saddam has been caught (and we hear nothing about this or WMD anymore) we are now on to the Constitution of Iraq. The question of today is this... Will it last?

If everyone (international forces) leaves in June then I give it about a month before everything is chaotic again. However, I did see mentioned somewhere a person saying that the US would be there for many years to come, just not in full action as they are now.

Post War Iraq - Page 37

Many underestimate the power religious leaders have to influence the masses. Just because they are not in main stream government doesn't mean someone is not paying attention. Here is one of the views of a cleric in Iraq:

An influential Shiite cleric in Iraq called Israel's assassination of the
spiritual leader of Hamas a "dirty crime against Islam" and the September 11 terror attacks "a miracle from God." Moqtada al-Sadr delivered a charged sermon at Friday prayers at a mosque near the holy city of Najaf.
https://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/03/26/...main/index.html

Post War Iraq Politics Business Civil & History - Page 37

As always, the conflict in Iraq is on my mind. I try to pay attention to what is happening over there, but there is so much that it is difficult to even follow major events.

Anyway, here are some links to information about one man, and what he saw and did there, Chief Wiggles' Operation Give.

Here is his blog.

Make sure you read the two newspaper articles linked from Operation Give.

For another view about the war, look at this link from Citizen Smash.

Yes, I still have reservations about how the US got involved. But now we are there, it is important that we do the best job we can to provide the Iraqi people with a measure of security and liberty. Even if they later squander that liberty.

NightHawk