Related Information to Atheists Not To Be Feared!

Atheists Not To Be Feared! - Page 10

Bare with me, in my mind aliens exist. The enormous expanse of the universe and the amount of time that it has been here leads me to believe that there must be aliens.

In this same way of thinking I believe in a God and some sort of afterlife.

Just because there is no immediate evidence that aliens exist does not mean that they don't exist. When you take into account all the information it seems almost insane to think that they don't.

If you look at how we have developed scientifically as well I think this points to the existence of God. People used to think the world was flat. They knew that there was a world and it had parameters it must meet. They looked around and thought it must be flat. Though there was always that person who thought no, it can't be flat. Once they followed their gut they found that the world was round.

Meaning humans have a very extraordinary ability to look about themselves and deduce information with surprising accuracy. We may be off a little with certain details but main facts tend to reveal themselves in line with our theories.

It is those with faith that tend to find out the truth. While the nay sayers are forgotten in time. Figuring that God must not exist because of all the evil in the world is not a valid argument to me. Saying that we have never seen him is also unimportant to me as well.

Getting to a conclusion I would say that our understanding of God may be flawed, not God itself. It is not a great stretch to think that we at this point are still on the precipice. We as a species have only been around for about 4000 years (civilized time). The universe itself is billions and billions of years old.

To say we have it all nailed down at this point, to me, is completely unfounded. I am not saying I have seen God or some kind of measurable proof of his existence scientifically. Yet, to say we have the corner on such things at this point is a different kind of crazy in my view.

Feared To Atheists

Oliron, I respectfully and strongly disagree. People of faith have claimed thousands of gods and "truths" throughout human history. It is the proper application of human reason that has uncovered basic aspects of reality. Reason laid the basis for every modern technology as well as formulated theories such as Relativity and Quantum Mechanics which have expanded our understanding of the nature of existence. Faith has no such record at all.

I don't know if there are any aliens or not. If there are, they will be discovered by science, not by faith claims. It is highly unlikely we will discover any gods using the scientific method, since most faiths claim that their deities lie beyond the natural realm. Nor does science claim that it has all the answers. Every scientific theory is provisional and subject to change, unlike most religious dogma.

GothicNature, admittedly, atheism does not offer any hope beyond this life. But if there are no gods, then faith offers false hope. I would rather have truth than comfort. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than pleased to discover that after I die. If I come before the judgement seat of God (or gods) and am asked why I didn't believe, I will simply say, "You should have provided better evidence of your reality." If I'm to be punished for not believing without good proof, that's probably not the kind of God I would want to worship anyway.

"Factsforyou," yes, the universe is massive and intricate, but I don't think you can "explain" it by appealing to something even more intricate and incomprehensible. To quote you, "where is the logic in that"? Just because we don't understand everything about the universe is a poor excuse to posit supernatural beings. Vincenzo, since I don't believe in any gods, of course I don't see life as a "test"--but as the only opportunity we have to live.

JB, I haven't even begun to address the issue of morality without God, but I will get around to it...

Atheists Not To Be Feared! Beliefs Religious General

I am curious since I never spoke to an atheist before, so what atheists or should I say, you personally believe how men has been created? We have perfect bodies with every single organ knowing exactly what to do, intelligent minds, a world with all the resources we need to survive...it is so hard to imagine for me than there was this big explosion and suddenly all these things were created. I am really curious at your take on creation (human and nature).

Page 10 Feared To Atheists

Hi RominaL!

I don't claim to speak for all atheists, since they vary widely in their beliefs about such matters. The only thing all atheists have in common is their non-belief in gods. Beyond that, they can and do hold a huge range of philosophical positions. For example, in the political-economic realm, Ayn Rand was a radical capitalist while almost everyone knows that Karl Marx was an ardent communist.

My personal view is that existence itself, in some form, is eternal and infinite. Our particular universe originated 13.7 billion years ago in the event we call "The Big Bang" but it was not an explosion in the ordinary sense of the word, because all explosions with which we are familiar create destruction and disorder.

The Big Bang led to a universe which, overall, is "winding down." However, within that universe are pockets of temporarily increasing complexity--billions of them, which we term galaxies. We are fortunate to exist within one of those pockets of complexity, the Milky Way, in a solar system and on a planet which is ideally suited for the development of life.

This complexity did not happen in a random manner, if by random one means purely chaotic. Rather, complexity increases when individual existents interact in accordance with their very natures and form more complex patterns and beings. Over billions of years, such interactions have led to this earth, the life on it--and you and I speculating on its origins. I see it as completely natural, though we are still entirely ignorant of many aspects, such as how life itself began. However, we are pressing forward with inquiries into such basics and the past two centuries have demonstrated incredible progress in answering such questions.

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I guess what I was attempting to articulate was that I do believe in a God. However, I do believe that God is not as much of a personal diety that is interested greatly in your daily life as many would like. I see God in what you describe as "The Big Bang". The theory of relativity expresses it well. At some point, the universe was created. So you have to accept that mass was lying about waiting to be collected and exploded for the bang or you believe that it came from what ultimately is pure energy that was transformed into mass in the explosion. Just picking up the story at "The Big Bang" makes it easy to discount God. Asking the childish question of why yet a few more times and you come to the same conclusion that Einstien did...there is a God. He just believed that God was a totally non-personal god.

My view is that God provided this playground that we call the universe.

I too have trouble dealing with the idea of a personal God due to the evil of the world. If our God was truly a personal god, surely he would stop such things from happening even with free-will. Earth would be a totally utopian society and it would be a great big lovefest, but sadly...it isnt, so I believe that he created it and has no desire to govern it. I do think that when that spark of life ends, there is a determination/judgement on what you did with God's earthly body he gave you. Your answer to that would decide where you go next in your eternal and infinite existence.

You say that the universe originated 13.7 billion years ago and to that I can agree in the respect that that is when the mass of the universe was born...but where did that mass come from? I have asked this question and when I do...I come up with God or if you want to hit it scientifically...pure infinite energy. If you say that the infinite energy source isnt God...then where did the energy come from...etc...

Perhaps you are ok with just saying...I don't know, but it isnt God whatever it is. However, like Einstien, I just cant get there.

Atheists Not To Be Feared!

I know JB doesn't like it when I do this but I'll respond just by reading a few posts. First of I would say that I totally believe that God exists. Maybe it is blind faith but I'll stick to that. People who do not believe in God, as with everyone, has the right to put their faith where ever they feel to. To add to this post however I think one has to look at the 'facts' that we hold on to dearly. Also I must say that this debate will never be won by any side, it will continue for all time.
People who have their faith that a God or gods exists and is responsible for the running of the universe are doing so because of what has been passed down to them from their elders, be it parents, priests, teachers etc, who also learned it from their elders and so on. This knowledge has been more or less unchallenged for generations until the dawning of the Information Age that we are in now. The younger people now want to know why and will not stop until they understand. I always use the example of angels with wings. Why do angels have wings? In time long gone, the flying animals all have one thing in common. Yes that's right, wings. So of course if angels can fly, then of course they must have wings. How else can they fly? That is why to this very day, if you ask anybody to imagine or picture an angel, they will immediately think of a 'creature' if you will, with wings. That was the only logical explanation. Let me wrap up because I am beginning to even bore myself. To go back to the Big Bang theory is to me quite formidable, even going back to pure energy because this makes as much sense as God always existed. Guess what, I can also say that the pure energy always existed too because as we all know. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be converted from one kind to another. To me that sounds like God from a scientist point of view. Who knows maybe in time to come the two parties will meet and say we were both right. Maybe God caused the Big Bang or the Big Bang caused God to exist.

Atheists To Feared! - Page 10

Or maybe there is no such thing as a "Big Bang" after all it is just a theory based on an expanding UNEXPLORED universe being judged from less than a speck in the scheme of things - see here: Source 5

I have noticed through the years that most people with an opinion tend to make it a finality as to say this IS the way it is.... The big problem with many Atheist is that they declare there IS no god. Skeptik is probably the first self declared Atheist that I've seen that is not willing to apply the "IS" as a matter of finality but he is definitely the exception. I'm just waiting for the morality angle to see what more of interest can be taken.

Atheists To Feared! General Religious Beliefs - Page 10

Can There be Morality Without God?

Most believers are convinced that if God did not exist, there would be no objective basis for morality. It becomes completely subjective and "anything goes." Is that really the case?

The first thing we should note is that any human action that relates to morality ultimately involves a choice based in some basic "value." What could be the foundation of morality for someone who does not believe in God? For me, the most obvious foundation is human life itself. We are the only creatures in this world who can make a conscious choice to live or die. That is the foundation for a naturalistic morality--the value of human life itself. Unless a human is disordered or in extreme distress, we always seek to preserve our lives.

We thus have a basis for morality without God. Whatever protects and enhances human life is "good", whatever harms or degrades it is "evil." We have basic needs which must be met in order to live. Universally, every person needs food, warmth, shelter, social interaction, protection of health, and, unlike all other animals in this world, a need for knowledge. Because morality is prescriptive (what ought to be done) rather than descriptive (what is), we can now present our first principle of a natural morality:

We ought to desire that which is actually good for us. At this point, we are speaking merely of our basic needs as humans, not more complex interactions. However, the principle is self-evident because asserting its opposite is nonsensical--that we ought to desire that which is actually bad for us? Indeed, it is the needs I mentioned which provides a further basis for our human rights. Every person born into this world has the right to acquire the essentials they need to live.

Naturally, human morality is much more complicated than this because we are complex social beings, born into societies which vary widely in terms of their customs and cultures. In that sense, morals are relative, but they are not entirely subjective because all humans, in all ages and cultures, possess the same human needs. In many cultures (including OT and NT cultures) slavery was taken for granted. Slaves were seen as a means to improve the lives of their owners, with only a limited (or non-existent) view of their value in themselves. Civilizations outside your own were "the other" and again the value of their lives was far below that of the people in your own clan, tribe, or nation.

In spite of the many imperfections in the modern world, there has been a steady progression in moral standards which have NOT been driven by or based in a belief in God. Although it still exists, slavery is condemned by all nations. In the West, women have equal rights with men in almost all circumstances. Whatever their political and economic systems, nearly every culture recognizes the rights of individuals to seek and acquire the goods they need to live a decent life (Obviously, that ideal is far from realized).

Although many of the Founding Fathers were devoutly religious, the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution, does not codify even a single of the Ten Commandments. Nor is there any hint of a Christian morality in its content. The authority derives entirely from "We, the People..." I have to admit I am grateful to be living in a country where personal freedom is maximized and I am welcome to believe or disbelieve in any deities.

Certainly, an atheist can simply say, "Well, I don't accept the value of anyone's life but my own, and I'll do whatever I want in this world." I think such people are rare and anyone who chooses that course will almost always suffer natural repercussions either in terms of broken personal relationships, or sanctions from society if they ignore its laws. Most atheists recognize that each person in this world values their own life just as much as they do their own, and that the best way for everyone to lead fulfilling lives is through cooperation, not exploitation. Morality is natural for humans, not imposed.

A God-based morality presents dilemmas for believers. Are morals good because God commands them, or are they good in themselves? For example, is "Thou shalt not kill (murder, if you wish)" good because God declares it, or is it a good principle in itself? From my point of view, it's clearly good in itself, because morals are based in the value of human life and murder violates that foundation. We don't need any gods to tell us murder is wrong.

What if God orders, "Thou SHALT kill?" He did so many times in the Old Testament, even ordering the slaughter of women and children as Israel moved into the Promised Land. Was that "good?" If so, we have a morality which is completely subjective based on God's whims and desires. Imagine if a new prophet arose in Israel who claimed that God was ordering his nation to exterminate the Palestinians, including all women, children--and even their livestock. If they followed God's command, would any other nation in the world think their actions were "moral?"

In the end, I prefer a morality based in understandable human judgments, needs and circumstances, not in the variable commands of an unknowable deity whose purposes are inscrutable to the human mind.