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Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2: Rivers Run Red - Page 38

After Theaton and Jesla spur forward and are out of earshot, Caelum looks to Archival, "I do not think those two understand how good my hearing is… "

"Either that, or they truly do not care. Regardless, they do not understand the tenuous line they tread," I sigh. Looking to the others I state, "I find myself in need of council. Mykael and Kresnik, you were present for the events of which I am about to speak, so please hold off on giving your input until I set the situation up properly."

"Akiros, Hegin, and Kyra… allow me to give you a brief synopsis of our laws. You may read them in their entirety upon reaching our fort, but for now this is the general gist. 'Harm no one physically nor fiscally. Everyone has a right to life, liberty and property. Anyone is welcome that abides by our laws.' That is the short and sweet version, there is quite a bit more, but the spirit is there."

"Now, let us say we come into contact with an entity that is angered at a wrong that has been done. That entity demands our assistance and makes a senseless threat but does not seek to act on said threat and instead seeks to discuss their grievance. Should we listen to the entity as long as they do not attack, or should we attack them - continuing even after they implore us to cease?"

"Let us take that a step further now. I have been named the ruler of the realm and wish to converse with this individual. Despite my desire to continue the discourse, other individuals attack and refuse to stop their attack. Especially considering that the perpetrator of the attack was the one that pushed to have it entered into our laws that those committing, and I quote, 'violent crimes of rape, assault, or attempted murder should have the same punishment as murder and banishment to the World Wound.' What would you do in my situation? Especially when it has been decided that no one is above the law. Regardless, their insubordination can not go unanswered, lest they divide the realm."

Edited: Diarmadhim on 14th Feb, 2017 - 4:40am

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Ignoble says...

"My Lord I will honor your desire that I hold my tongue and not give any input on the matter, but I do think it is important that you reveal the nature of the entity of which you speak. I feel it is an important piece of information that should not be omitted." Mykael replies to Archival and then continues to ride silently intent on hearing the response from the others.

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2: Rivers Run Red Archive Pathfinder / D&D

"I plan to in time. I want to get their opinion based on the situation as currently stated, then I will worry about that one detail after. If that one detail changes everything then we are not a nation of laws, but rather one of bigots."

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Ignoble says...

Mykael's jaw clenches and for a moment and it would seem that he is going to respond to Archival's words but instead bows to Archival slightly then looks away and continues to ride in silence.

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Seeing Mykael's reaction, my demeanor changes to one of apology and embarrassment. "Forgive me, my friend. I did not mean to offend you with my words. Sometimes I am too brash; to blame it on my age would be belittling. It is a flaw I seek to work upon. I know where you stand on the situation. Know this - my heart soared when I saw you restrain yourself to follow the laws we had all agreed upon."

Turning again to Akiros, Hegin, and Kyra I add, "As you can see, this is a rather sensitive subject. I understand the soreness displayed by Theaton and Jesla, but not their complete lack of decorum. Mykael is the most honorable person I know. Seeing him have issues with this drives me to want to resolve it all the more."

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Game Master says...

Hegin says, "I am very curious about what kind of entity you could be speaking. Could really be anything, a beast, a spirit, a god or stranger things that exist in the world. Could even be some kind of animate spellscar or wild magic event, or, heck, even registered businesses are treated as entities in some nations."

Akiros says, "On face value, an unfounded threat is no reason for attack. A small fine, maybe, but not capital punishment. If it asked for the attack to cease, I can see the reasoning for not believing they will hold themselves to their own word. It could be a trick depending on the kind of entity we're talking about. I would have to be absolutely sure they can't be believed, for our paladin code states 'When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender, but I am responsible for their lives.'"

---

Out of Character: I almost forgot one detail while you were out exploring! Can I get a bunch of Will saves from Theaton and Jesla? Theaton can add his racial bonus to resist.

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2 Rivers Run Red - Page 38

The Diplomat says...

"I will be honest," Kyra says a moment to pause in thought and considering Mykael's words and actions, before continuing, "Knowing this additional context could be very important, especially with certain entities and monsters given the abilities or magic they might possess." She strongly felt this was not a simple issue but quite complex issue with many veriables effecting things.

Still, she was given what she was given and Kyra continues, "Yet with only what you have given I feel it is fair and true to hear the entity out, and at least reprimand any that attack the entity who does not show any aggression themselves apart from mere threats as well because of what or who they are. Especially since this person agreed or more even helped create the very laws which they are breaking."

Looking to Mykael, the paladin sighs and says, "Even if it was a moment of impassioned action, if they broke the laws they helped create the person should be willing to face the consequences of their actions." Her words might be hard to bare, but they were she felt important.

Kyra finishes with the words, "If the people see their leader making exceptions to the laws, give excuses or show leniency to those closest to them, it will be seen as hypocrisy and morale will be effect. The leader will lose the trust and respect of those below them, as well even those outside of their growing kingdom." Yes, there were times to have exceptions to the rules created. Except such should be used sparingly and with only the best of reasons.

Looking to the one who asks she does add a few additional words, "Yet, for consideration, perhaps amendments should be added to the law if issues arise too often and put too many at risk." Even though laws were intended to be fair, there was very often room for improvement.

Edited: Thomaslee on 14th Feb, 2017 - 2:35pm

Icon's Pathfinder Kingmaker 2 Rivers Run Red D&D / Pathfinder Archive - Page 38

Having heard their opinions I reiterate, "It sounds, for the most part, that we are in agreement that if someone asks to not fight then we should not attack them. Now, here is the slight stitch in the whole scenario… The entity was Davik Nettles. He was once an engineer of Restov and operated a bridge, Nettle's Crossing, across the Shrike River."

"The issue is that when we met him he was most certainly dead - but intelligent still and cognitive. From what I gathered while speaking to him, the Stag Lord killed him and he became an undead. When we first came upon him, I had asked the group if anyone had a way to commune with undead creatures so we might discern what happened. It was at that moment that we learned he was not the typical unintelligent undead and was actually able to control his own actions and think for himself."

"As he emerged from the waters he called out, 'I will speak for myself. You are not my tormentors. Throw the Stag Lord's body into the river that I may look upon his death, or join me instead.' It was then that Mykael detected evil from him."

"That being said, we had previously offered worshippers of all deities, good and evil, the ability to live in our lands as long as they abide by our laws. This decision was based due largely in part to my research having uncovered that a wide variety settlements have failed among these lands in times past due to going too far against those the inhabitants. I came to the conclusion that for the best chance at success, we must take a position of neutrality and implement the rule of law so that all were protected equally. Our laws must protect the good while also protecting the minority, lest we trample upon the individual rights of life, liberty, and property. Also, allowing people to worship the less desirable deities openly as long as they do no harm to others physically or fiscally would allow us to better keep track of their activities and not have to worry about cloak and dagger activities. Alas, the churches of Hanspur and Gyronna were too chaotic in nature to willingly abide by our laws - thus the implementation of harsh punishments for the most heinous of crimes."

"All of that aside, we still have a situation in which two individuals willfully disobeyed the call to stand down and attacked an intelligent being that repeatedly called for them to desist the attack so we might speak rationally instead. I do not believe the color, creed, race, nor state of living should matter in the eyes of the law. Rather, the actions of each party is what must be judged, lest we have whites trampling upon the rights of blacks, kobolds trampling upon the rights of gnomes, or elves trampling upon the rights of dwarves - as examples of racial enmities displayed both past and current. In my eyes, undeath and living are relative terms when it comes to intelligent actions."

Edited: Diarmadhim on 14th Feb, 2017 - 11:17am