Embedded Dice Support - Page 13 of 14

QUOTE (Daishain)In any case, I was hoping - Page 13 - Board, Card, RPG Reviews - Posted: 3rd Aug, 2018 - 11:56pm

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Discuss  Embedded Dice Support This just for you to see how Dice Rolls are formulated. This only works for Game Master's who have GMaster status and requested it for their Game.
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Post Date: 15th Mar, 2018 - 7:51pm / Post ID: #

JB
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Embedded Dice Support - Page 13

Ignoble says...

Attached Image QUOTE (Cinder)
... Allowing people to buy success in Dungeons & Dragons

Please keep in mind that the Text Role-playing Game Character Creator and related features was created for any and all Role-playing Games and is not game specific.

Attached Image QUOTE
If this has been implemented in any way, please let me/us all know, but my impression is that it hasn't been or it would have been announced here.

It has not been implemented or created. If it ever was then it will be up to the Dungeon Master to decide if it can be used in his / her game.

Attached Image QUOTE
... So I really hope this has not and will not ever be implemented

Not sure what the connection is between your donation and saying we should not implement a feature. Perhaps you assume that a feature is created for one game or one Role-playing Game, but it is not and is instead available site wide. The Dungeon Master then decides if a feature can be part of their game just as it is done with Character's Gems. Therefore, if you do not want 'x' in a game and the Dungeon Master allows it then that is between you and the Dungeon Master and not a decision of a Member as to what we should and should not implement.

Attached Image QUOTE
Isn't available at all, correct?

No, it is not available in raw format, however you can always go through any number of Threads and view those who have made rolls.



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Post Date: 24th Jul, 2018 - 4:52pm / Post ID: #

Gknightbc
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Cinder, the average of your numbers is 10.14 and the median is 10. Each line avg and median:
7.83 8
7.17 7
8.83 8
7.67 6
11.83 12
12.17 14
10.17 12
7.83 5.5
8.83 8.5
13.33 17
7.83 8.5
11.17 12
9.00 7.5
13.50 14.5
11.67 12.5
11.50 12
11.67 14
8.50 8.5
11.67 13
10.67 9.5
It doesn't seem to be an overall average that's the issue, but consecutive rolled values being identical far more often than the odds would suggest. For example, the odds of rolling three numbers out of six the same is one in 400. (The first number being the target number and 1:1 odds). Out of 120 numbers, 14 shows up 13 times (10.1%), which is more than double the odds. Other significant appearances are 20 at 11 times, and 13,17, and 19 only showing up 3 times each, which is half the chance.

Post Date: 2nd Aug, 2018 - 3:44pm / Post ID: #

Daishain
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I have two issues to bring up.

There has been a consistent impression of bias in the dice roller towards extremes and repeated results, frequently supported by data like the above, leading several of my players to complain about their rolls not being really random. If it was just a few isolated cases, I would simply chalk it up to the whims of chance nd move on, but this has been a recurring issue that has been ongoing for years. I would request that any potential causes of this with the RNG code be looked at.

Secondly, the setup is rather clunky when it comes to complex rolls. I would request that it be replaced or supplemented by direct input. For instance one of my characters rolls 2d8+2d6+1d6+15 in damage for certain attacks. As it is, this ends up taking up four lines of the code generator (Rolling for multiple rounds causes some inputs to bleed over), kn has to add it together himself, and the static number must be noted and added seperately. If on the other hand I could simply type in the above sequence on a single line and select how often the roll is repeated, all that mess could be avoided.

Attached Image Edited: daishain on 2nd Aug, 2018 - 5:03pm

Post Date: 3rd Aug, 2018 - 4:50pm / Post ID: #

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Ignoble says...

Attached Image QUOTE (Daishain)
There has been a consistent impression of bias…

Only if PHP random code function has some bias of its own. I will look at it when I get a chance.

Attached Image QUOTE
For instance one of my characters rolls 2d8+2d6+1d6+15 in damage for certain attack

In your example, isn't this the same as choosing "5" as "Start#" (I know the maximum is 4 but that can be boosted) and selecting D20 as the "Type" then simply adding in the +15 bonus as usual? That can all be calculated on one Dice row rather than multiple. Therefore, it will read out like:

Complex roll 5 on D20 +15.



Post Date: 3rd Aug, 2018 - 5:53pm / Post ID: #

Seath
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It isn't the same because rolling multiple dice makes getting average results statistically more likely since there are more possible combinations of dice numbers that add up to numbers in the middle of the possible range. In Daishain's example of 2d8+3d6, the average result of these rolls is 17. But there are many, many more ways to reach the number 17 than there are to reach the maximum damage result of 34. In order to get a 34, you HAVE to roll (8,8,6,6,6) which is pretty unlikely. But if you want 17, there are many more combinations that could give you that result. You could have (4,5,3,2,3) or (8,1,2,5,1) and so on.

While raising the floor might eliminate the minimum from being an impossible value, it doesn't eliminate the fact that rolling more dice smoothes the average damage result to be closer to somewhere in the middle. I hope that makes sense. Khan Academy has a few great videos on dice probability. Also any statistics video or course on combinations and permutations etc.

Post Date: 3rd Aug, 2018 - 8:09pm / Post ID: #

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Ignoble says...

Alright, you want better final results with your rolls. I do not know how many times these special combination rolls are required for Dungeons & Dragons 5e but what I can do is create a row like this (Pictures as row or in a line) as an example:

Amt of times roll D4 + bonus +
Amt of times roll D6 + bonus +
Amt of times roll D8 + bonus +
Amt of times roll D10 + bonus +
Amt of times roll D12 + bonus +
Amt of times roll D20 = Result

Or just have one bonus field at the end and you add all the bonuses since the bonus does not change.

Unless this is something more complex where for example each D6 roll must have its bonus added per roll and then added together - if so the current format works better for that.

The other issue of the resulting rolls can be a min and max check on each roll. For instance, if "1" is it really 1, let us roll a lower value than median again to see? If 20, is it really 20, let us roll a higher value than median?

Rather off topic, but...
I appreciate the suggestions but I do not have time to watch videos, just looking for quick solutions to be coded in as necessary.



Post Date: 3rd Aug, 2018 - 10:16pm / Post ID: #

Daishain
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Page 13 Embedded Dice Support

Attached Image QUOTE
I do not know how many times these special combination rolls are required for Dungeons & Dragons 5e
I was speaking of 3.5e. And that's a damage roll for my character there, it or something similar is rolled every single time he swings his main weapon. So pretty often. Now to be fair, that particular character adds several modifiers to his attacks, most don't need to worry about quite so many dice.

In any case, I was hoping for a field entry where I could type in the above and get a single total. Whatever combination of drop down menus you can come up with, there will either still remain some setups it doesn't handle well, or it will be elaborately complex for both you and us.

Concerning the dice bias, this isn't my field, but one thing I've learned is that no simple code based rng function is free of bias. Computers just don't do random very well. I just checked to be sure, and PHP is known to have problems in that regard. The good news is this can be corrected via coding to the point where bias is high impossible to discern via various methods. It usually involves using a larger range of numbers than is actually needed and winnowing the results.

Post Date: 3rd Aug, 2018 - 11:56pm / Post ID: #

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Ignoble says...

Attached Image QUOTE (Daishain)
In any case, I was hoping for a field entry where I could type in the above and get a single total.

Sorry, but that is a recipe for disaster. Even with the strict fields and specific selection that is available already I still see lots of extra Posts with:

"Oh I forgot this roll… "or "Wait, I made the wrong choice so I need to roll again...."

Therefore, can you image a field where the typical user can enter any number of digits in all the wrong ways and never get it right? Or me, having to code loads of variables to constantly stop users from entering the wrong stuff. I can see the first error message:

"You cannot enter D200 the maximum is D100".

Hence, I offered the one line solution for the complex multi-die rolls.

For randomness, as I said, the most I can offer is a median based on the example I gave for max and minimum - that will get the effect you guys are looking for. Keep in mind it goes both ways as I will make sure it checks for all those "20" on the D20 that no one complains about.



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